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Fact, Fable, and Darwin (If you haven't read this already, you should!!!)
American Enterprise Magazine ^ | 8/04 | Rodney Stark

Posted on 08/02/2004 3:58:04 PM PDT by Renfield

click here to read article


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To: RadioAstronomer; PatrickHenry; VadeRetro
Off topic? ROTFLMAO! It was a reply to your question.

Does anyone remember the recurring character that Martin Short (the guy who does "Glick") played on SNL, where he wore little round nerd glasses and nervously chain smoked cigarettes while being interviewed? His routine was always the same: nervously looking around, sweating alot, and saying "Who said that? I never said that. That's not true."

He should have been called "Mr. Denial" -- as he essentially denied everything he was asked about, thus rendering rational dialogue impossible.

501 posted on 08/04/2004 5:10:09 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: RUCKUS INC.

I think they got tired of being corrected, picked up their toys and went home lol


502 posted on 08/04/2004 5:48:24 PM PDT by Havoc (.)
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Comment #503 Removed by Moderator

Comment #504 Removed by Moderator

To: ClearCase_guy
I'm not afraid of evolution at all, or perhaps I should say Darwinism. If the theory -not a dismissive word, by the way -holds true, then we've much cause for wonder! But I've yet to see a transitional species, in the fossil record, or among the living. Science is not my line, but I come to the table with no hidden agenda.
505 posted on 08/04/2004 6:36:03 PM PDT by ashtanga
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Comment #506 Removed by Moderator

To: PatrickHenry
that I had given up on him by the time I pinged you guys to this thread.

You are a proven voyeuristic sadist, hence, your pinging us to this mess. FReak.
507 posted on 08/04/2004 7:32:54 PM PDT by whattajoke
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To: ashtanga
But I've yet to see a transitional species, in the fossil record, or among the living.

I guess that you've never actually observed a single living organism, then.
508 posted on 08/04/2004 7:33:42 PM PDT by Dimensio (Join the Monthly Internet Flash Mob: http://www.aa419.org)
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To: CIACrack
Darwin did not believe in God, Darwin was an athiest. How hard can this be, people?

Apparently rather difficult, since you somehow got it 100% ass-backwards.
509 posted on 08/04/2004 7:35:53 PM PDT by whattajoke
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To: longshadow

Yeah, threads like this mess with my head. I absolutely hate them, but can't stop reading/posting. WTF is wrong with me?!


510 posted on 08/04/2004 7:37:10 PM PDT by whattajoke
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To: Doctor Stochastic

I don't know. I've never heard of that fable. Is he?


511 posted on 08/04/2004 7:48:22 PM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: azhenfud

He's your guy. Didn't you check up on him? Try The Lancet for 2003. Do you agree with him that SARS is extraterrestrial?


512 posted on 08/04/2004 8:17:48 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: longshadow

The Creationists continually claim that "hydraulic sorting" explains the fossil layers. (Note that they need to add incorrect physics to their incorrect geology to support their incorrect biology.) Layers such as silt-salt-silt-salt-silt-salt.... cannot happen from a single flood.


513 posted on 08/04/2004 8:21:35 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: CIACrack
You may find this method of operation perfectly logical, but have you thought that maybe God has the power to open humanity's eyes to anything he wants humanity to know? Why do you put such limits on God's power?

Sure, god is theoretically all-powerful. However, to explain evolution, he would have needed to give man knowledge of biology, chemistry, genetics etc. He didn't do that, for reasons that are his own. He left all these things for us to determine on our own.

This discussion is, of course, assuming that the existence or non-existence of the Christian god is in any way relevant to the TOE. It isn't, but you already knew that.

514 posted on 08/04/2004 8:22:27 PM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: whattajoke
Yeah, threads like this mess with my head. I absolutely hate them, but can't stop reading/posting. WTF is wrong with me?!

You are clearly addicted to reading the irrational ravings of madmen, especially when posted in the form of sentence fragments. The more fragmented the posting, the more you are drawn to it, like a moth to a flame.

Alas, there is no known cure.

;-)

515 posted on 08/04/2004 8:23:54 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Note that they need to add incorrect physics to their incorrect geology to support their incorrect biology.)

Duly noted!

516 posted on 08/04/2004 8:25:35 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: whattajoke
Yeah, threads like this mess with my head. I absolutely hate them, but can't stop reading/posting. WTF is wrong with me?!

For the same reason I watch Cops- for the shirtless, drunken morons.

517 posted on 08/04/2004 8:25:37 PM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: longshadow

It's been awhile since someone has claimed that imaginary numbers don't "really" exist. There's an article in the May 2004 American Math Monthly about experiments in teaching mathematics. It shows the (vast) extent of mathematical misunderstanding and makes suggestions for teaching improvement. One main point is that students often don't understand that mathemtatical definitions are stipulative rather than lexical. They give a technical definition rather than determine how people use words.

Creationists are unwilling to accept a scientist's definition; rather, they project their own usage onto the scientific usage of words. ("Theory" is the most commonly mis-used term by Creationists.)


518 posted on 08/04/2004 8:33:05 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
One main point is that students often don't understand that mathemtatical definitions are stipulative rather than lexical. They give a technical definition rather than determine how people use words.

Creationists are unwilling to accept a scientist's definition; rather, they project their own usage onto the scientific usage of words. ("Theory" is the most commonly mis-used term by Creationists.)

It seems to me that the problem is endemic to people not well educated in technical topics (meaning science and mathematics.) Lacking a background in those topics, they aren't even aware that it is necessary to formulate more precise definitions in a technical field in order that we understand what is meant. The loose definitions of everyday English are far too imprecise, and lead to ambiguity.

It should not be a surprise that by projecting the lay meanings (or even their own, made-up meanings) onto the scientific usage, the anti-Evolutionary/anti-science Luddite Collective introduces into the discussion the very ambiguities that science and Mathematics eschews. It should be no surprise, because ambiguity is the favorite hiding place for the anti-Evo/anti-science warriors, as it affords them most powerful epistemological weapon in their intellectual armamentarium: the fallacy of equivocation, and the ability to render muddy that which would otherwise be clear.

519 posted on 08/04/2004 8:49:20 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: Havoc
I'm a Christian. And I'll define that. It means I'm a follower of Christ and his message. Not a follower of philosophy. Christianity is strictly defined. And among that is the immutable understanding of the accepting of all things that are irretrievably true.

Quite to the contrary, they (creationists) tend to stress the scientific method.

How can you simultaneously take both of these positions?? Do you realize that they are completely contradictory!! Have you been taking logic lessons from John Kerry?

Please do yourself a favor and read about the scientific method. I promise God will look at you with kindness for putting one of his greatest gifts (your brain) to good use. Here's a link to get you started.

scientific method

520 posted on 08/04/2004 10:23:02 PM PDT by aquila48
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