GOP has star-power dilemma: How will party use Schwarzenegger? [Kerry vs. Arnold?]

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | June 19, 2004 | Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

[NittanyLion]

When did I ever proclaim myself to be a Libertarian?

When you said:

Neo-liberalism is primarily an economic school of thought, though it is also the basis of the foreign policy agenda commonly known as "neo-conservativism", and a great deal of modern Libertarianism. These are the philosophies I subscribe to

Can't keep your "philosophy" straight? I'm not surprised, as jumbled and confused as it is.

[onyx]

You have expressed nothing but your opinions.

Given the confluence of events, anyone who opposed Davis would have won. The people wanted him out, period.

Completely false assertion.

Yes, the CA GOP. He's too liberal to represent the GOP at a national level, though. He doesn't represent mainstream GOP thinking.

Look at Mayor Rudy. Arnold is to the Right of Rudy.

Conjecture. The CA GOP is not representative of the national GOP. His brand of social liberalism is likely to alienate as many current GOP members as it draws in.

No, your assertions are conjecture.
Arnold attracts folks to GOP.

[counterpunch]

Given the confluence of events, anyone who opposed Davis would have won. The people wanted him out, period.

Your ignorance is on display again.
Arnold won 50% of the vote out of a field of over 150 candidates on the ballot.

[NittanyLion]

Arnold is probably the best "draw" with regard to prospective voters, and that is most important to me at this time.

Sounds like we simply have different values. I value protecting the long-term philosophy of the party and realize that great ideas will ultimately attract the most voters. (Remember Reagan? What made him great was that he communicated great ideas, and that attracted support.) You're looking for a shirt-term infusion of moderates who may or may not actually support conservative values.

[JesseHousman]

How will party use Schwarzenegger?

The proper question is: How do RINOs like Sphincter, Collins, Snowe, Chaffe, DeWhine, Voinovich and the host of RINOs use the Republican Party?

As a respectable place to hang hat and coat while they get down to their real roles in congress: to aid and abet the DemocRATs every chance they get!

[onyx]

Exactly right.
ONLY GOP Arnold could have won.
Without Arnold, we'd still have
a democrat in governorship, be he
Gray or Cruz.

[NittanyLion]

Look at Mayor Rudy. Arnold is to the Right of Rudy.

That ain't saying much. And I'm not even sure that's true. I don't have enough info to make a sound judgment either way.

No, your assertions are conjecture. Arnold attracts folks to GOP.

Much as you'd like to believe that, it's not a fact no matter how many times you say it. Arnold's thinking is out of the GOP mainstream at a national level. He's simply too liberal. Bill Owens would make an outstanding speaker, and it'd be a nice setup for 2008. Owens is mainstream GOP.

[NittanyLion]

Your ignorance is on display again. Arnold won 50% of the vote out of a field of over 150 candidates on the ballot.

Exactly. Because, as I stated before, "The people wanted him out, period."

Calm down - you're irrational.

[counterpunch]

and a great deal of modern Libertarianism. These are the philosophies I subscribe to

A great deal of Libertarianism. Not all.
I also stated that I subscribe to neo-con philosophies, even though some libertarian philosophies contradict them.
Once again, I never claimed to be an ideological purist on any front.
I merely acknowldge some of my beliefs are present in various ideologies

Are you going to debate me now, or your strawman?

[b9]

I do see your point, however to me it is a difference
between absolutism (which I reserve for thought
and prayer) and applying that inspiration to the greatest
possible good at the time.

[NittanyLion]

I do see your point, however to me it is a difference between absolutism (which I reserve for thought and prayer) and applying that inspiration to the greatest possible good at the time.

We're in agreement. But the choice isn't between Arnold and an absolute; there are a number of other outstanding choices to be made. How about Bill Owens? Good, strong conservative who's likely to make a run in 2008. He can use the exposure.

[NittanyLion]

Are you going to debate me now, or your strawman?

I'm enjoying watching you debate yourself. Your posts are a steady stream of contradictions - why should I jump in now?

LOL.

[b9]

I would rather expose our electorate to the GOP using
Arnold as a draw. Owens will hopefully speak as well.

[counterpunch]

Exactly. Because, as I stated before, "The people wanted him out, period."

Calm down - you're irrational.

And yet again you display your ignorance.
Davis was not on the same ballot as Schwarzenegger.
The recall question was a seperate ballot issue, and was not at all dependent on the second question of which of the 150+ people should replace him if - and only if - he is first recalled.

You clearly do not understand California politics, the CA GOP, or the California recall. Perhaps you should stick to Virginia issues. I promise I will not intrude on those as you are intruding on our California issues.

[NittanyLion]

I would rather expose our electorate to the GOP using Arnold as a draw. Owens will hopefully speak as well.

Why? Owens can articulate conservatism in an attractive way. Arnold's social liberalism is not the image mainstream GOP members wish to project.

[b9]

Frankly, the electorate isn't all that bright.
Arnold is a shinier lure.

[NittanyLion]

Davis was not on the same ballot as Schwarzenegger. The recall question was a seperate ballot issue, and was not at all dependent on the second question of which of the 150+ people should replace him if - and only if - he is first recalled.

Yet again you make my point. The people wanted him out, period. Independent of choosing a replacement, Davis was voted out. At that point it was just a matter of choosing a replacement; if it wasn't Arnold it would've been someone else.

Thanks for supporting my arguments, I really do appreciate your help.

[NittanyLion]

Frankly, the electorate isn't all that bright. Arnold is a shinier lure.

You take a dim view of the electorate. Ideas still hold power, as Ronald Reagan proved time and again. It isn't all about "shiny lures" - it's about a solid, hopeful vision of the future.

[counterpunch]

I'm enjoying watching you debate yourself. Your posts are a steady stream of contradictions - why should I jump in now?

I notice your arguments have become increasingly rhetorical and decreasingly factual.

You have now offically bottomed out.
In other words, you have been intellectually outpaced every step of the way, and have nowhere left to go.

[onyx]

The idea behind the convention speakers in prime time
are to ATTRACT voters for the purpose of reelecting GWB.

You refuse to see Arnold's drawing power.

As for Arnold's politics being out of sync
with GOP nationally...

If you mean the GOP platform, yes he is, on abortion;
but the whole idea is to have a huge GOP tent.