GOP has star-power dilemma: How will party use Schwarzenegger? [Kerry vs. Arnold?]

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | June 19, 2004 | Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

[NittanyLion]

How was DC?

[Reagan Man]

It's always satisfying to see Republicans stand against abortion on demand. Abortion remains a hot button issue for conservatives. Being pro-life I tend to believe that most folks are personally opposed to abortion. The problem is, they accept the decision of Roe v Wade without realizing that its court approved killing.

If O'Conner and Stevens retire in Bush`s second term, maybe we'll get a Kozenski and a Luddig to replace them. The librats would go bonkers.

[Howlin]

It was fabulous; best trip we ever had.

I haven't forgotten the question about the cathedral; I have a reply, but I'll do it private; too long for the threads!

[NittanyLion]

Take your time...I'll keep an eye out for it. Glad you had a nice trip!

[Reagan Man]

Didn't you get enough already. NittanyLion kicked your butt real good. LOL

>>>You have a pretty low threshhold for what you consider "liberalism".

There are four basic issues that define a conservative Republican. As stated in the Constitution, support for a strong national defense; supply-side economics/income tax cuts; limited govt/smaller govt and support for pro-life issues. Most librats don't support any of these issues. If you stand with GovRino, then you stand left of center on the political spectrum.

>>>You continue to break Reagan's 11th Commandment. You bring dishonor and disgrace to Ronald Reagan's name. Please stop using it. You do not represent him or his values. You bring nothing but shame to his name and his party.

Reagan's 11th commandment didn't apply to liberals and Democrats. Today we can add to that short list, the contemporary political animal known as, a RINO. That means GovRino is open to all the criticism I can muster. And from the looks of your remarks, its open season on you too.

The objective of conservatism is to triumph over liberalism. In fact, that's what FreeRepublic is all about. And for your information, Reagan didn't even create the slogan, "11th Commandment". It came from California state Republican chairman, Gaylord Parkinson in the 1960`s.

I use "Reagan" in my handle to honor a great man. I am a Reagan conservative. That drives you liberals crazy, but how I enjoy watching your juvenile outbursts.

I've got some news for ya, bucko. Tom McClintock is a Reagan conservative too. And JimRob thinks McClintock is a fine conservative.

"McClintock sounds like he's the man who can get the job done."

33 posted on 08/19/2003 10:38:31 PM MDT by Jim Robinson

California Needs Conservatism (by Rush Limbaugh)

"... the sooner Simon and Arnold will fold up their foundering campaigns and endorse the best conservative for the job. McClintock."

104 posted on 08/19/2003 11:39:54 PM MDT by Jim Robinson

California Needs Conservatism (by Rush Limbaugh)

"Well, I'm sadly disappointed that so many people have taken it upon themselves to attack McClintock so viciously. McClintock is a fine conservative with a great record and does not deserve this abuse. I can understand that people don't think he can beat Arnold due to his money, fame, name recognition and backing by Wilson and other big name Republicans, etc, but this does not mean McClintock should have his name and reputation dragged through the mud. Whatever happens this election, we will still need conservatives like McClintock in California. Wish we had more like him.

176 posted on 09/29/2003 3:01 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

Tom McClintock Supports the Liberty Belles Pro-Second Amendment Organization!!!!

[counterpunch]

I can't believe I'm arguing semantics with you. It's very simple.
i·con
n.

3. One who is the object of great attention and devotion; an idol: “He is... a pop icon designed and manufactured for the video generation” (Harry F. Waters).

he·ro
n. pl. he·roes

3. A person noted for special achievement in a particular field: the heroes of medicine. See Synonyms at celebrity.

They are American icons for their achievements outside of, and beyond the political arena. They are Republican heroes - that is, heroes to the Republican party - because of their work within the political arena combined with the prestige their iconic status brings to the party specifically. All three of them are both. I never said that one was one but not the other. Perhaps your poor comprehension skills has lead you to percieve some contradiction. Don't blame me for that.

There are some people who are American (read: cultural) icons who are not heroes to any political party. You mentioned Jessica Simpson. She may fit that description, that is if you consider her to be a cultural icon. Britany Spears certainly fits it.
Then you have people who are heroes to a political party, but not American icons. Bill Owens and Rick Santorum were mentioned. They both would fit that description, if you were to consider them to be Republican heroes - that is, heroes to Republicans. they are not, however American icons who would draw a large interested television audience.
It has a lot to do with reach and influence. There are very few people who fit in both catagories. Schwarzenegger, Giuliani, and Reagan are some of the few. In fact, they're the only 3 I can think of. Perhaps Abraham Lincoln, but I'm not sure about how much celebrity he has in America in general.

I'm open to persuasion. Show me a cite and I'll take a look at it, but intuitively it's hard to believe as many Republicans as Democrats are pro-life.

I never said "as many". There are more Democrats than Republicans. Right there, you aren't going to have "as many" even if they're both split down the middle 50/50. There is a slight bias towards pro-life among Republicans, and a slight bias towards pro-choice for Democrats. But it is not all that great.

The main difference seems to be Republicans tend towards wanting stricter limits on abortion while keeping it legal. Democrats tend towards abortion on demand. the differences are nuance, and not at all the monolithic split that you and others may believe.

[NittanyLion]

I never said "as many".

Well, let's review what you said:

about half of all Republicans are pro-choice, just as about half of all Democrats are pro-life.

Sounds like "as many" to me, and I suspect to everyone else. No doubt you'll come back with some tortuous explanation as to why "as many" differs from "about half". For someone who doesn't like arguing semantics you're awfully loose with language (when it's to your benefit).

So let's recap what we've learned:

1. You flip. You flop. You flip again.
2. You redefine language...practically arguing the meaning of the word "is".

Cite Dingle-Norwood and I think you'll have the trifecta.

[Tamzee]

He promised he wouldn't be a spoiler. He stayed in the race anyways and it was only Schwarzenegger's immense popularity that prevented the vote from becoming spread enough for the GOP to lose.

[NittanyLion]

As to your graph, I'd need to know what "available, stricter limits" means in order to make a judgment. If Republicans' idea of stricter limits is the traditional "rape, incest, danger to mother's life" and Democrats' idea is "parental notification", that graph is not meaningful.

Get those definitions and we can talk, but until then we may be comparing apples to oranges.

[counterpunch]

I use "Reagan" in my handle to honor a great man. I am a Reagan conservative. That drives you liberals crazy, but how I enjoy watching your juvenile outbursts.

What have you ever done to advance the Republican party?
I have seen no contribution from you other than attacking Republicans who are out there making a difference.
You can see some of my contributions by visiting my website. The URL is in my tagline. Actions speak louder than hollow, self-righteous words.

You are the RINO, and perhaps a closet liberal in conservative clothing too, just here to create friction.

No true follower of Reagan would weild his Reagan's name like some holy relic the way you do. Reagan's 11th commandment didn't apply to liberals and Democrats.

You don't know the first thing about him. Reagan signed pro-choice legislation as governor here in California. He also raised taxes as governor. Prior to that, he spent half his life as a Democrat.

He was, by your definition, a bleeding heart liberal RINO democRAT. Reagan's 11th Commandment applied to all Republicans. Period.

[Tamzee]

You still claim that GovRino is a political conservative

That's another strawman for you... same MO... strawmen, revision and insults. What I've said repeatedly is that he is a fiscal conservative, social moderate.

The fact that Issa, Simon and others may have pulled out, was of no consequence to McClintock's candidacy.

You're right... it would have fizzled anyways and one of them would have been running if Arnold hadn't stepped in. McClintock failed at piddly Controller's race in 2002 and I believe he also failed two statewide elections in the 90's. The majority of Californians aren't attracted to his hard conservative platform.

So there's no hard feelings between McClintock and the Governor.

In other words he is better behaved than his followers and knows the right will get further if we stick together with the moderates when necessary.

[counterpunch]

Well, let's review what you said:
about half of all Republicans are pro-choice, just as about half of all Democrats are pro-life.
Sounds like "as many" to me, and I suspect to everyone else.

First of all, you edited out the part where I stated the fact that Democrats out-number Republicans. So, no, I don't thing any intelligent person would say it "sounds like as many". You need to go back to school and learn some basic math. Here's a remedial review: If one group is larger than another, and you divide both by about half, the half from the larger group will still be larger than the half of the smaller group, and yet they are both divided by "about half".

[NittanyLion]

More dissembling. How predictable.

[counterpunch]

More dissembling. How predictable.

Yes, logic and mathematics is a pesky thing that undercuts your petty game of semantics. Call it whatever you want.

[b9]

I'm going to a Veterans for Bush rally in Balboa Park.

Sounds wonderful.... have a GREAT time :-) Just got back...the rally was small, but very classy.
The few news cameras there were obviously only interested in teenie soundbites, not even the great talks by congressman Duncan Hunter and others, including a POW admiral captured for 6 years in Viet Nam.

Hubby and I didn't stay for the barbecue, but we both really enjoyed Duncan Hunter.

Coming back to this thread after a motivational rally by real men whose real efforts are making a real difference, kinda puts things in perspective.

Arnold is one of those real men, in the trenches.

[NittanyLion]

Your own numbers contradict your earlier claim that "about half of all Republicans are pro-choice, just as about half of all Democrats are pro-life. " The idea that you'd somehow use them as vindication of your ill-considered comment outs you as either a hopeless political hack or a complete nitwit. I'm just trying to figure out which it is.

[Reagan Man]

>>>What have you ever done to advance the Republican party?

A lot more then you have that's a fact. I'll match political history and resumes with you anytime.

>>>Actions speak louder than hollow, self-righteous words.

After you give your personal blood, sweat and tears in seven presidential campaigns for GOP candidates, covering 36 years and two diffreent states; several Senate campaigns for GOP candidates; several House campaigns for GOP candidates and even a few campaigns for local folks running for City council, then you come back and we'll talk.

I was even a co-founder of one of the first HS Young Republicans clubs in NYCity and was a member of the NY State Conservative Party. The only sanctioned conservative party in the nation.

>>>You are the RINO, and perhaps a closet liberal in conservative clothing too, just here to create friction.

LMBO! Boy oh boy, you're having a rough time on FR today. More juvenile rhetoric, from a juvenile FReeper.

>>>No true follower of Reagan would weild his Reagan's name like some holy relic the way you do.

LOL Man of man. You're the one whose been attacking me with emotional outbursts. Par for the course. Can't win the arugment, so you revert to trash talk. Pathetic!

>>>You don't know the first thing about him.

I forgot more about Ronald Reagan's political career and public life, then you'll ever know.

[Reagan Man]

>>>What I've said repeatedly is that he is a fiscal conservative, social moderate.

By Arnold's own words, he is a social liberal. Until he proves otherwise, he's a fiscal liberal in my book. You're still in denial and can't face the facts.

>>>McClintock failed at piddly Controller's race in 2002

Piddly? LOL In that race, McClintock recieved more GOP votes, then anyother Republican who ran that year from coast to coast. And if Arnold hadn't bullied his way into the recall camapaign, McClintock would have beat Bustamonte.

[b9]

LOL
Your FLIPPER theme was great.
Although Flipper is almost too darn cute to represent crusty ol' Kerry.

I'd love to see him as a burnt pancake...flat & flakey.

[b9]

Bashing Arnold will not help Bush.