Army's Midcareer Leaders Are Bearing Up Under the Burden of War [NCOs]

Newhouse News ^ | 6/2/2004 | David Wood

[Leisler]

I've read roomful's of U.S. military history, especially Army. Every enemy we have ever faced was stunned, and couldn't handle the American Sargent.

In any other army they would be Generals.

[Max Combined]

"But back-to-back deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan are making it difficult for the Army to get these leaders into school."

I don't see how any school can be as effective as real combat in teaching these guys combat skills and in sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

We are finding out what works as opposed to what sounds good.

[writer33]

Hooah! NCO Bump!

[MEG33]

God bless the men who lead our armed forces!

[StarCMC]

SARGE - you GOTTA read this!!

[Hoplite]

Once you've seperated the wheat from the chaff, you still have to grow it.

Hence NCO professional development courses.

Furthermore, it's better to learn from the mistakes of others in a classroom environment than to learn the lessons firsthand at the cost of good men - the Army disseminated the lessons from Mogadishu through the classroom, giving various participants the opportunity to pass along their experiences and lessons learned to other soldiers, many of whom have had an opportunity to put that knowledge to good use in recent years.

[TADSLOS]

The best education I ever received were from my NCOs. Whoever came up with the moniker to describe them as the "Backbone of the Army", nailed it.

[Poodlebrain]

Unfortunately, its not all combat skills that count when competing for promotions. Many NCO's will serve in staff positions developing plans and logistics for battalion and larger formations. Many will be required for recruiting duties. These assignments have different skill sets which must be learned for successful tours by the NCO's. And attending schools is critical for learning the necessary skills.

[dts32041]

Obviously you have never been a NCO, any time you can get to school to improve your skills and learn from others is a god send, you don't have to repeat their mistakes.

[Max Combined]

Is combat the school of hard knocks?

[writer33]

"God bless the men who lead our armed forces!"

And God bless Texas!

[Max Combined]

"Once you've seperated the wheat from the chaff, you still have to grow it.
Hence NCO professional development courses."

Isn't the time for that, after the wars are won?

[dts32041]

It is but it is a damn hard way to learn.

[Freedom4US]

"Within the memory of veterans like Command Sgt. Maj. Charles L. Raper Jr., 48, sergeants were hard-drinking, foul-mouthed and quick with their fists. Reading and writing weren't ranked high as admired skills."

I confess to at least two out of three, with the latter not being encouraged much while I was in, not in my job description. But I gotta say, I was able to glean a hell of a lot from my senior leaders - and some of them were technically speaking, practically illiterate. And damn fine leaders, some of them. Today, it's practically impossible to get promoted without lots of schooling. I hope that's really for the best.

The fact is, leadership styles depend a lot on what the job at hand is - and the makeup of the soldiers being led, and so on.

I have known NCO's who were very intelligent, but lacked that "something" necessary to run a platoon effectively. I have known NCO's who were quite stupid, and also lacked that "something" necessary to run a platoon effectively. They seemed to get promoted ;)

The really good NCO's (And officers, for that matter) have a combination of innate _common sense_ as well as being technically and tactically proficient.

The skills that helped me during my time were simple and mostly as a youth - outdoor pursuits like the Boy Scouts (shame on anyone who maligns the Scouts!), camping, hiking, fishing, and hunting - mechanical pursuits like machine shop, carpentry, electronics, and auto repair, even tearing apart a lawnmower.

One day I had to show a private how to start a lawnmower. It was clearly beyond his skill level, and he was nominally in an aviation unit. How can this be? No biggie - that's my job - but he was trying to run it with JP8 (think Kerosene) rather than gasoline. "But Sarge, it says "MOGAS" right on the side of the 5 gallon can!"

"Yes it does." But that doesn't make it so. "You got it off the flightline, right?" "Well,.. yeah." "Uh-huh. And do you know what goes into any available container out on the flightline, as a result of crew-chiefs taking a fuel sample?"

Our soldiers deserve, and receive, the best possible training and equipment, and among the finest NCO's and officers ever to don the uniform, I probably didn't qualify but I tried.

[Hoplite]

Isn't the time for that, after the wars are won?

No.

The time for cultivating Army leadership is now, and it's best done with a knowledge base broader than can be provided within our line platoons.

[Max Combined]

Did we have plenty of time between the Gulf War and Afghanistan to go to school?

Did they send NCOs to school during WWII?

[dts32041]

Yes

[Junior]

When firefights erupt with terrifying chaos in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is usually sergeants -- not officers -- who steady their riflemen, maneuver their soldiers down alleyways, coordinate by radio with other units and supervise the resupply of water and ammo and evacuation of the wounded.

[...]

An' now the hugly bullets come peckin' through the dust,
An' no one wants to face 'em, but every beggar must;
So, like a man in irons, which isn't glad to go,
They moves 'em off by companies uncommon stiff an' slow.

Of all 'is five years' schoolin' they don't remember much
Excep' the not retreatin', the step an' keepin' touch.
It looks like teachin' wasted when they duck an' spread an 'op --
But if 'e 'adn't learned 'em they'd be all about the shop.

An' now it's "'Oo goes backward?" an' now it's "'Oo comes on?"
And now it's "Get the doolies," an' now the Captain's gone;
An' now it's bloody murder, but all the while they 'ear
'Is voice, the same as barrick-drill, a-shepherdin' the rear.

'E's just as sick as they are, 'is 'eart is like to split,
But 'e works 'em, works 'em, works 'em till he feels them take the bit;
The rest is 'oldin' steady till the watchful bugles play,
An 'e lifts 'em, lifts 'em, lifts 'em through the charge that wins the day!

[...]

[Max Combined]

Yes, they had plenty of time to go to school before the wars started and thus now is the time to put that schooling to work or yes, they did have school during WWII?