Posted on 06/02/2004 10:29:02 AM PDT by Edward_Daley
The 50,000 dead probably includes the North African campaign, Italy, the air attacks on Germany and losses at sea, all before D-Day. If so, it seems low.
Also, Germany declared war on the U.S. the day after Pearl Harbor, note that FDR in his famous speech did NOT declare war on anybody but Japan. Germany in fact bailed Roosevelt out of the slightly sticky issue of declaring war on Germany even though we were only attacked by Japan. To a clear thinking (non left wing) person it all exposes the idiocy of the "preemptive war" debate. We obviously needed to defeat Germany as well.
"I don't think there was one, we are still there 60 years later"
LOL! Brilliant and true!
Ah, you're one of those that thinks Osama and Saddam are two separate issues.
I don't think there was one, we are still there 60 years later
I'd settle for an exit strategy for Bosnia...
"...you're one of those that thinks Osama and Saddam are two separate issues."
Even the spellings are different!!!
"Also, Germany declared war on the U.S. the day after Pearl Harbor, note that FDR in his famous speech did NOT declare war on anybody but Japan. Germany in fact bailed Roosevelt out of the slightly sticky issue of declaring war on Germany even though we were only attacked by Japan."
True. I'm not sure that war was ever officially declared upon Germany. Not that it mattered to all the stinkin' dead Nazis.
"To a clear thinking (non left wing) person it all exposes the idiocy of the "preemptive war" debate. We obviously needed to defeat Germany as well."
True, but given the Lend-Lease Act and other pre-Dec.7,1941 pro-Britain policies, we were already actively at war with Germany and for good reason. Their U-boats had already sunk a few American merchant ships and that number would rise tragically.
There's nothing better than a dead Nazi.
BFL
Tom Daschle is deeply saddened.
Exactly. Although, remember that we really were in a shooting war with Germany in the Atlantic for several months before Pearl Harbor. American shipping convoy escorts had attacked German U-boats, and at least one destroyer had been torpedoed and sunk. FDR was adopting an aggressive policy toward the Third Reich and in support of Great Britain. But, whether or not he could have gotten support for formally declaring war on Germany after Pearl Harbor is debatable.
Hitler got him off the hook. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Hitler, for whatever reasons were rattling around inside his insane head, went before the Reichstag on 11 December 1941 and honored the Pact of Steel by declaring Germany at war with the United States. Italy obediently followed along.
The irony is, Hitler had been trying to get Japan to attack the Soviet Union from the rear (around Vladivostok) for months, and they wouldn't take the bait. They had their eyes on Southeast Asia and its natural resources, and didn't care about Hitler's plans to finish off the USSR. Japan left Hitler swinging in the breeze by hitting Britain and the United States first, and the smart move for him would've been to sit back and let Japan distract us while he fought Britain and the USSR. Instead, he let his insanity decide his fate.
}:-)4
In reality, we never had a formal declaration of peace from Gulf War I. Iraq agreed to a number of stipulations (including ALL UN resolutions), with non-compliance resulting in the re-implementation of hostilities against them. We spent a decade at war patrolling the "no fly zones" over Iraq, and allied planes were attacked EVERY day by Iraq.
Technically, we HAVE been at war with Iraq since 1991. We invaded to enforce the UN resolutions that Iraq agreed to abide by in the negotiations that took place after the rout in Kuwait.
LLS
"Ah, you're one of those that thinks Osama and Saddam are two separate issues."
Well, they are. Osama's construction ties to the Bush family are well-known and provable and culminated with the Bush Admin. giving all the American Bin Ladens a free flight out of America on 9-11 when no other planes were allowed to fly, whereas Saddam's ties to the Bush family were more related to buying WMDs from the US in 1983, ostensibly to gas Iranians, at which he was successful.
Excellent essay. People who don't read history are doomed to do and say stupid stuff. It's obvious that John Kerry has never heard of Neville Chamberlain.
Hold on, let me see (rummaging in closet..ah ha! there it is!!) Okay, please repeat, I have my tinfoil cap on now....
Ed,
Fantastic article, and I just bookmarked your website. Keep up the good work--you're a modern Thomas Paine!
"Germany declared war on the USA first (December, 1941)."
The German declaration:
The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression.
On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearney and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German sub-marines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that-American destroyers attacked German submarines.
Furthermore, the naval forces of the United States, under order of their Government and contrary to international law have treated and seized German merchant vessels on the high seas as enemy ships.
The German Government therefore establishes the following facts:
Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.
The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.
Accept, Mr. Charge d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.
December 11, 1941.
RIBBENTROP.
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DECWAR.htm
"Okay, please repeat, I have my tinfoil cap on now...."
The words of a person afraid of Google....
None of what I mentioned (Bin Laden family getting flown out of USA on 9/11 and the USA selling WMDs to Saddam in 1983) are false.
Suggestion: Get shovel. Remove sand from neck area. Lift head out of Desert of Ignorance. Unfortunately, the facts are sometimes painful.
Heh heh heh
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