Posted on 05/28/2004 5:25:59 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
The majority can be quite tyrannical. That's why we put a specific protection for guns in the US constitution. We didn't put a protection for porn in the US constitution. Freedom of speech doesn't protect porn. The courts have shifted the line, but the line still exists and should exist as evidenced by Child Pornography laws.
"Yep, reasonable regulations are just fine. Everyone can agree on that. But prohibitions?"
My reasonable regulation is your prohibition. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two. Again I'll mention Child Pornography to illustrate that prohibition is necessary. All we are arguing about is where to draw the line.
I would not claim that a lie in that case is evil. " But you still claim such an effort to prevent an evil act is a 'lie'? - Is there an intent to defraud involved? Are you obligated to cooperate with an evil government act?
By definition it's a lie. "1 A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood. 2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression."
God commanded us "Not to bear false witness", but He also commanded us to "Love our neighbors". It's extremely rare that the two commandments will conflict, but in this senario, they clearly do. And love for others dictates the actions.
You are not obligated to cooperate with an evil government act. But you better be sure that the act is evil and not just against your preferences. Again, I'll refer to the Declaration of Independance. The colonists patiently put up with and sought redress for numerous evil acts from King George, before declaring an obligation to overthrow the King as an unfit ruler. They didn't undertake the revolution lightly.
Of course the danger in saying that "love for others" trumps "Not to bear false witness" in this unusual case, is that people can rationalize almost anything.
That's why it's important to understand what love really is and what it is not. It's also important to pray so that God can reveal to you false motives and alternative courses of action. It's why God tells us "Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Often, we can't see the big picture. He often asks us to do things that don't seem to make sense until hindsight.
But it does make them as old as human history. And why do you include the world's second oldest profession in that list?
However, the nature and prevalence of porn has certainly changed over the years, particularly since 1960.
Nature? No. Prevalence.? Yes.
Prior to that most porn was either written word or hand drawn illustrations.
You're off by over a hundred years and you left out a wide variety of "art". For the record, cameras were in widespread use in the 1850's, zoopraxiscopes go back to the 1860's, modern films date back to the 1890's.
The following link describes the search by a doctoral student for porn in colonial America. It is instructive on what was available.
So, everything you might want was available, assuming you could afford to buy it, commission it, or steal it. Just like today.
Using that same structure to evaluate prohibitions on porn.
There may be cases where a couple is helped by instructional materials that the more prudish of us might call porn.
But if you go back to Post 449 and read my description of why most porn should be considered evil, I think you will find that building a case where "love for others" would allow any of the porn addressed by post 449 is a pretty difficult case to build.
No, today, spammers routinely send out emails advertising girls with barnyard animals. There is no comparison. My guess is that you would have really had to go looking for it in colonial America. That the average person who didn't go looking for it, would never run into it. But today, you can't avoid it. You can't turn on the TV, open your email, or drive down the street without being bombarded with pornographic images. OK, maybe you can drive down the street in many areas. But it's still has reached a prevalence that I think is harmful to society.
Of course, I realize that you think homosexuals dying of aids, simply deserve a darwin award and move on. Or that the overly promiscuous living their lives with other STD's simply is nature at work. But I think that true love demands that we try to shape society to some extent so that people use their gifts of sexuality the way God intended instead of in harmful ways.
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. - H.L. Mencken
LOL
Wouldn't it be respectful to the Buddist's religion to relieve him of all of his earthly possessions?
Majority rules? Whatever the majority defines as 'evil' we can prohibit? Does that principle also apply to guns, Dan?"
The majority can be quite tyrannical. That's why we put a specific protection for guns in the US constitution.
For shame. Unenumerated rights are specified in the 9th.
We didn't put a protection for porn in the US constitution. Freedom of speech doesn't protect porn.
Of course it does. You know better, but you're begging the question anyway.
The courts have shifted the line, but the line still exists and should exist as evidenced by Child Pornography laws.
There are identifiable victims in child porn, as you well know. It's a criminal act.
Yep, reasonable regulations are just fine. Everyone can agree on that. But prohibitions?
My reasonable regulation is your prohibition. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two.
Specious. You prevaricate as though you've had much practice. Congrats.
Again I'll mention Child Pornography to illustrate that prohibition is necessary. All we are arguing about is where to draw the line.
The line has been constitutionally drawn for over two hundred years. Time for you to stop attempting to straddle it, imo, as you do next:
I would not claim that a lie in that case is evil.
But you still claim such an effort to prevent an evil act is a 'lie'? - Is there an intent to defraud involved? Are you obligated to cooperate with an evil government act?
By definition it's a lie. "1 A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood. 2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression."
How sad that you see a statement made to frustrate an evil act [sequestering jews] as an immoral 'lie'. You really have no shame.
God commanded us "Not to bear false witness", but He also commanded us to "Love our neighbors". It's extremely rare that the two commandments will conflict, but in this senario, they clearly do. And love for others dictates the actions.
You really do believe jew hunting nazi's deserve 'true witness'? Good grief.
You are not obligated to cooperate with an evil government act.
But you better be sure that the act is evil and not just against your preferences.
I'm sure, - hunting jews is an evil act. You aren't?
Again, I'll refer to the Declaration of Independance. The colonists patiently put up with and sought redress for numerous evil acts from King George, before declaring an obligation to overthrow the King as an unfit ruler. They didn't undertake the revolution lightly.
You belabor the point. No sane man undertakes revolution lightly.
It's a lie by definition, but it's hardly immoral when told to save the life of an innocent Jew. The problem here is that YOU have a very legalistic view and think that a lie in all cases is immoral.
"You really do believe jew hunting nazi's deserve 'true witness'? Good grief."
I thought my comments were very clear that I wouldn't find a lie in that situation to be evil. God's law to not bear false witness deserves respect and obedience except in the very rare instance when the greater law of "love your neighbor" supercedes it. This is that rare situation.
"I'm sure, - hunting jews is an evil act. You aren't?"
Of course I am sure hunting Jews is an evil act. My qualification was to prevent people from taking my comments as meaning that any of God's laws can be easily disobeyed. The rare case of evil Nazi's hunting Jews is one such case where it should be clear to everyone that LOVE demands you protect the innocent Jew and deception in that case is acceptable and not immoral.
You sought to trap me with your question. Your trap failed, because I am aware of God's greater law of Love Your Neighbor.
I apologize for being so late to the discussion;
I see a couple of things missing from this girls life. The primary factor is poor parenting, secondary is probably the mother or fathers decision not to educate the child to the truth of the world beyond their front door, which is more poor parenting. Thirdly is God .
Atheists and agnostistics seem to get along fine in this world. How they do afterwards we don't know. Believers are exactly the same, fine in this world and we don't know what's beyond. Hopefully it is as the Bible says.
Now if the mother or father had taken the time to sit down with this girl who evidently is attractive and explained the FACTS OF LIFE about money, money and sex, sex and your well being, I doubt that she would have ended up in the mess she is in.
One or both parents should have explained to her that if you walk around with your breasts hanging out or finely detailed with tight clothing that the males are going to be attracted to you. The same goes for your buttocks and vaginal area.
This isn't something that has just occured in the past few decades, this has been since the creation of man. If we weren't sexually attracted to the opposite sex, man wouldn't still be on this earth.
So, while this child was growing up she noticed that males were attracted to her. That was certainly a key factor in her decision to go to LA and to look for work as a nude photograph model. If men were looking at her in Utah maybe she could get paid to show some more skin.
Where were the parents just prior to this decision? Didn't they see the lifestyle she was heading for as a teenager? I will bet both of my legs that the teenager was wearing the 'wrong' clothing'.
Young girls who are well endowed wear two types of clothing, tight which says to the male, look at these first or loose which says look at my face first. The same goes for pants and skirts. A pleated skirt doesn't give any indication as to whether she has a flabby butt or a shapely one.
Whose fault is it that she chose the porn industry? Her parents must take the primary weight for that decision. Not ensuring the child had more self respect than to become a whore actress and not ensuring the ignorant child didn't understand the dangers in the porn industry is the parents fault.
Too many parents are terrified of sitting down with their kids and using common terms to describe sexual acts and body parts. They are ignorant of the fact that young girls call their own buttocks, "my ass". It is much easier to think my child doesn't swear or use dirty words. I have heard more young girls say "fu*k" than you could imagine.
I am the father of two daughters and their friends use the word more often than they say "please." Sure I've heard my girls say it once in a while but a long time ago when they were about 11 and 12 I sat them down and gave them the story about the FACTS OF LIFE.
Being raised on a ranch they has seen a bulls with an erection, cattle breeding, dogs and rabbits with erections, calf, dog and rabbit births, etc.
One Friday after dinner I told them they could say any word they knew to ask me a question if they didn't know the 'nice' word for it and I wouldn't get embarrassed, angry or punish them.
We discussed menustration, diseases, anal sex, oral sex, beastly sex, rape, fondling, teasing, and every position you can think of for vaginal sex.
Then that weekend I took them into town to show them the hookers working the streets and what can happen if you become a drug addict. That scared the crap out of them to actually see a woman would get into a strangers car for money.
I told them that God gave them a brain and they could use it to make the right decision or the wrong one. Want to become a drug addicted hooker or would you prefer to be a lady like your mother and Aunts were? It's your choice Darling.
I'll do everything I can to help you make the right decision and if you make the wrong decision you had better expect the Devil in me to rip you a new one.
About three or four years later my older daughter came into my small tack shop where I was repairing a saddle and told me she had been invited to a party that weekend at one of her school friends homes. I asked if she was going to go? She said no, because she found out it was going to be a sex party. The parents were leaving town for the weekend and their twin daughters had invited eight or nine friends to swap partners all weekend. To say the least I was shocked to hear that 15 year old girls were doing such things and I was damn proud of my daughter #1 for not going and #2 for being able to tell me the truth about the party.
Whenever my girls went out to a party I always called them about 30 minutes after they got there. I'd say, How's things going?" Once in a while they would start complaining, "Aw Dad, I just got here, do I really have to come home? We're just starting to have some fun! Okay, I'll meet you out in front at the driveway." That was their way of saying, "Dad get over here and get me out of this mess!"
I never asked what was going on at the party, I didn't figure it was any of my business what other peoples teenagers did. My daughter had given me our code for "I need your help right now" and I came to help her not, investigate the other kids.
So, my suggestion is to do something such as we did and then you won't have ignorant sons and daughters as to what really happens on the other side of town.
If people are attracted to porn, fine that's their business. I don't support it but I am not going to say they can't be greedy and have no respect for themselves. That decision is theirs and theirs alone.
If I was to have a discusion about sex with a neighbors child and they told mom or pop, I would either get shot or arrested. How other people raise their kids is their decision, not mine or yours.
First, I'd like to thank you for being a responsible parent. Secondly, it has to be repeated that education about sexuality is the best way to prevent dangerous sexual activity by young people. Ignorance helps no one - my guess is that most of the patrons of the sex party were neved talked to by their parents about sex and are so experimenting in such a unfortunate manner.
I don't know about that. Too many kids I saw as my daughters were growing up seemed to believe that "it's fun and I want to do it, so I'm going to do it".
Their parents didn't explain to them that there's chores around the property and in the house that need to be done and you are expected to help. I heard parents saying that it was more trouble to get one of the kids to cut the lawn than to do it themselves.
I guess I was a mean parent because if you didn't do what mom and pop expected then your life wasn't going to have much pleasure in it at all. Be rude to your mom and I'd knock you across the room cussing to my self that the door wasn't open. I could always find work for them when it was raining and the wind was blowing----just to remind them about being polite and offering to help instead of waiting to be asked. (told)
I know for a fact that my method of discipline worked because the girls are constantly wanting to take their retired old Mommy out for lunch or shopping at a new store just to be together. They are each others best friends, all three of them.
I suffer when they gang up on me. "We want to go to the movies with Mom and you're whining about having to fix your own dinner. Come on Dad, give her a break, stop crying out loud. Hey old man, just go down to the restaurant if you're too lazy to barbecue yourself a steak. You can flirt with that new girl. See you later, Pop" and out the door they go, giggling like six year olds." I should probably report them to the DA for picking on Seniors.
I get the gentle reminder (LOL- actually it's more of a detailed threat) a month ahead of time exactly what I am supposed to do for our anniversary or Christmas.
So if another person's child runs into traffic, it's the parent's fault. It's not your place to issue a warning to them. Very compassionate.
It disturbs me that when you decided to reply, this was the first image to cross your mind
It should probably disturb you as well.
as far as your logic, you are way off. When Clinton decided to have a sexual relationship with Monica, it didn't just affect him. It ended up affecting the whole nation.
Why are you still so far OFF the subject? If a President picks his nose and it is captured on film then it is NEWS. If a married PRESIDENT cheats on his wife with a 21 or 91 year old woman it is NEWS.
Get back to the subject at hand! If you are unable to do that, you are probably engaged in self satisfaction or drunk. Since it was early in the morning when you replied, I didn't assume you were drunk.
If you are not mentally able to understand the thread subject why do you reply?
I hate to disagree with you but my two adult daughters are fine young women who are self supporting, law abiding, self respecting fine members of this community.
The whore that this thread is about I am thankful not only that I don't know her but that she doesn't live anywhere close to me because I would be tempted to call her a whore to her face.
Her mother is a piece of trash also for allowing her daughter to even think that the porn industry is a fine way for a young woman to earn a living.
If you are not mentally able to understand the thread subject, please do not reply?
Did you mean to post that as a question, porn boy? If so, it is not and you are too stupid to correct people for their mental ability. If not, you are too stupid to use a keyboard.
In any event, you are too stupid to be here. Call the short bus to take you elsewhere. Wear your helmet like a good boy, Willie.
Still can't find the thread subject? Sad, you are.
Hey, brother. I'm just speaking truth.
Well, you need to make up your mind. Calling me "porn boy" and "brother" would mean that you and I like that crap.
Sorry, but I have an attractive wife and video porn doesn't interest me, so you stay with it and view enough for both of us. Okay?
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