Military Commanders’ Decisions in Fallujah Overridden by Politicians (CONFIRMED)

Fox Live Broadcast / USA Today Interview ^ | 5/3/04 | Jim Michaels

[Rokke]

You and me both. I'm going to have to double my FR contribution next quarter. To be fair to elfman, he did grudgingly acknowledge that the Marines "helped train the Fallujah Brigade", but he absolutely refused to believe their withdrawal from Fallujah was also their own idea. I guess he assumes they were training the Brigade for the sole purpose of having them step into the middle of a nearly continuous firefight. Just between you and me, I think he knows he's wrong. But he'll never admit it publicly. In fact, he is currently sitting on the floor with his fingers in his ears and his face turning blue ignoring this post, because its easier to throw a tantrum than admit to being wrong.

[WOSG]

Let me publicly say that, sad to say, the FR ranters on thesee threads put the extremist Mullahs to shame! So much carping, whining, personal attacks and people more interested nitpicking to the nth degree or trying to justify some prejudice or preconceived notions.

Enough!

I went to a Republican club meeting today. 100 people in a room... 2 US Congressional candidates, one who will be the next Congressman from central Tx. Lots of other candidates and important people. But one guest who was introduced got the only standing ovation of heartfelt applause at the event: an Army Sargeant wounded and returned from Iraq.

I was gratified to see we had our priorities in honoring people straight.

The only real issue in Iraq is whether these decisions the coalition leader make will work or not, whether the execution of the plans by our soldiers and diplomats matches our goals, and whether we will see success. We dont know. The soldiers dont know. Bush doesnt know. We have resolve, we are trying to make the right calls, and we have faith in the success of our mission.

I've concluded after wading through many of these back-biting discussions from pessimist defeatists and "MOAB 'em" angry armchair gen'ls, that all we are contributing is noise.

[nutmeg]

ping!

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my infrequent ‘miscellaneous’ ping list.

[WOSG]

You are engaging in way too much personal attacking and presumptive projection, and you are utterly clueless as to where I am really coming from. I'd rather not step in the gutter with you, so bye.

[A Jovial Cad]

I just got what I suspect will be the last shrill, whining "reply" to this thread from the "everythings-going-great-in-Fallujah" crowd (check out Post #284), and it was, as usual, the last shriek in what has turned out to be a full-tilt retreat from the debate by those folks. They've moved on to blather and scream in fresher threads, as is their wont when challenged with facts.
Thus the thread ends. What have we learned? Well, elfman2, my friend, we have once again seen how nasty, vicious, and outright duplicitous those whom oppose our take on the situation can be. They consistently scream that we're "defeatists" (and much worse) while over and over we affirm that our criticism is based upon a desire for resolute victory. They twist and distort our words, while dispensing outright lies about our supposed motives. And then they slink off, whining, as was demonstrated here.
Until the next time we have the opportunity to take them on (which I suspect will be sooner rather than later), thanks and take it easy.
Sincerely, AJC

[elfman2]

"oh, well then! I wasted lots of bandwidth disputing that impression you gave!"

Please. Show me one thing I said that would give a reasonable person the impression that I said the Fallujah Brigade was not a Marine creation or even that I was upset that it was “created”, and I’ll give you the biggest fattest apology you’ve ever seen on FR.

[elfman2]

A couple of these people I more or less respect, though recognize that they do have a problem with what you mentioned. Some I don’t. And I’ve refused to even read any more comments from some for the kind of language at the end of the post that you referenced. I think that nothing good can come from continuing a dialogue that sinks to that.

Best Regards, BC

[gandalftb]

The tactical situation in Fallujah has changed. The Marine cordon is reduced to the Al-Jawlan area roughly 2km. square. Rebels went or stayed there as the streets and alleys are too narrow for even Humvees, the Marines use John Deere Gators for resupply and evac.

Al-Jawlan civilians reduced from 40k to about 2k. Non-combatants are mainly local men protecting family homes and housing rebel wounded. Rebel forces attrited from about 3,500 3 weeks ago to about 300 foreigners and 400 local toughs. Most are wounded, all are starving.

Water and power cut off. Generators are out of fuel so most enemy sat. phone batteries are dead, ending command and control except by runner. Look down thermal shows groups of 5-20 moving often, many are carried, few heavy weapons being moved, probably depleted. Ammo dumps were destroyed by Spectre gunships.

A very grim place, heavy fetid odor from many rotting dead. Teams of Marine Scout/Snipers, 36th Battalion ICDC Kurds, and Army SF-led ICTF snipers hunting 24/7 while 2 Marine Battalions hold the cordon. Many have over 20 KIA. The Kurds are very good at closing with their targets, they want to kill them all, very respected by the Marines.

Local imams are now broadcasting calls for the rebels to surrender. Debate about whether or not to clean up the battlefield before the media sees it. I say let the world and all the jihadist wannabe trash see it....Carry on.

[gandalftb]

RE the Fallujah Brigade: On 040420 a dozen local Sheiks/tribal leaders led by Gen. Saleh asked to speak with Col.Toolan, Chief of Staff to Gen. Conway, 1MEF. They offered to recruit locals, and ICDC and local police defectors to form the Falluja Protection Army (for $). War has been hard on their smuggling businesses. The Iraqi Provisional Authority and ICDC had a fit. The Marines saw an opportunity to severely deplete the rebels by getting the 200 or so ICDC defectors (with their weapons) to redefect. Gen. Saleh was too inept to do it and would have been shot on sight by the Kurds working for the Marines. So Gen. Latif was brought in to head the Fallujah Brigade consisting of three battalions. Two of which are Army/Marine trained, while Gen. Saleh heads one of its battalions with his people, working the SE part of town away from the fighting. Yes, this was an ongoing Marine effort, supplanted of late by Gen. Saleh's posse.

Gen. Saleh's group will be disbanded when Fallujah is pacified, the other two battalions will integrate into the ICDC. By the way, Gen. Saleh's first cousin is #54 on the most wanted list.

[elfman2]

It sounds like 90% of that is a mixture of 4th person rumors and wishful thinking.

[WOSG]

on this thread you were claiming there was a so-called 'withdrawal' of marines forced on them.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1127698/replies?comment=68

[WOSG]

For those who dont believe our troops are dishing it out a lot worse than we are taking it ... here's another encounter between US forces and 'insurgents':

http://windsofchange.net/


The CSA wanted to share this email with you. The email was sent to GEN Bell, CG, USAREUR from MG Dempsey, Cdr, 1AD.

---

Sir,

read the rest! »




...I met yesterday outside Najaf with a 1LT from the Iron Dukes of 2-37
Armor who as tank company XO was leading a convoy of two platoons of tanks
on HETs from Al Kut in the east to Najaf in the west, a distance of about
175KM. As they passed through the town of Diwaniyah, they were ambushed by a group of insurgents--undoubtedly former regime soldiers with some military
training--with RPGs, heavy machine guns, and AK-47s. The Task Force Scouts
had passed through only 30 minutes earlier without contact, so this was a
well planned ambush of probably 50 or so organized in two and three man
teams.

The convoy suffered three soldiers KIA in the initial moments of the ambush -- one Iron Duke, one 2ACR cavalry trooper, and one transportation officer. The convoy immediately returned fire. They had several HUMMWVs in escort, and the tanks on the back of the HETs were manned with loaders and TCs on crew served weapons.

Within minutes of the ambush, one of the HETs was disabled, and the Lieutenant realized he would have to stand and fight to ensure he had everyone. The Iron Dukes "broke chains" as they described it, by essentially driving off the back of the HETs under fire to engage the enemy. In the course of the next hour, they fought their way out of Diwaniyah employing every weapon available to them including main gun. They got everyone and everything out with the exception of one HET.

Enemy BDA was 30 killed and an unknown number wounded.

A day after this fight, I received an email from CPT Thomas Moore, of the 1175th Transportation, who was the convoy commander. He wrote: "were it not for the courage and actions under fire of the 2ACR and 2-37 soldiers that
day, he is certain all his men would have been killed." He asked me if he
and his soldiers engaged in that fight with us could wear the 1AD combat
patch. I told him I'd be honored.

There are many such stories of courage under fire and just as many stories
of incredible compassion to the innocent...

Continuing mission, sir.

V/R Marty

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

[gandalftb]

Check out Adam36's post - Shias vs. the Kurds, it's a Newsday article, posted over an hour after mine and days after my previous posts on Kurdish efforts. Can I talk you down to 89% and a 3rd person option?

[gandalftb]

You're right, sort of. This was Conways decision. But he had the "benefit" of the Iraqi Governing Council filtered through CentCom/Abizaid/Sanchez. There was a request to Conway to do a temp. ceasefire and to just look at other options such as joint patrols, more ICDC troops, beefed up local police/militias, etc. So he did take a pause, the Marines needed rest and resupply, and they knew that the needed Abrams and a MAW were on the way. Also, the snipers were racking up lots of KIAs, let 'em go.

So, Conway rejects all the possible options over the next few days when Gens. Saleh and Lteif show up with their "brigade" and an offer to bribe the ICDC deserters into redeserting to the "brigade". Gen. Conway has little patience for haggling so he asks Gen. Mattis to cut the deal which is what happened. By that time the initiative had been lost, CentCom/DC was really fussing and you see the result. We really did KIA most of the enemy but the cost/benefit wasn't there to do more, on top of the political snorting and braying.

One additional benefit: the aggressiveness in Falluja gave CentCom the assurance that they could go after al-Sadr and his mob without causing an Iraqi-wide uprising.

We suffered additional casualties due more to the lack of armor on the cordon which allowed infiltration of weapons to the rebels and their attack on 04/26.

[gandalftb]

The Marines "created" the Falluja Brigade but their influence was almost entirely financial. What training they got was by the Army special forces through the ICDC 36th Brigade which almost entirely deserted early on. The Falluja Brigade is directly and soley under Marine command and will not be made an ICDC unit but disbanded later.

[elfman2]

Have another drink guy, it’ll be better by morning.

[Pukin Dog]

You can kiss my ass. Why dont you just respond to what I said? Just another arm-chair wannabe talking out of your ass again. Come on down, bright boy, get answers so you can stop speculating. I'm sure you would be welcome with open arms.

[TomasUSMC]

Outstanding stuff elfman2