STUDY REPORTS ON TOP 100 LARGEST AND FASTEST-GROWING CHURCHES

Christian e-tailing ^ | May 3, 2004 | None named

[Quix]

He gives good Biblical exhortations in his sermons as well as good Biblical suggestions for Biblical relationships.

He teaches people to revere The Word; to believe it and practice it. . . to put their faith in God Almighty etc.

I consider that a lot more than ear tickling.

[Quix]

Have never heard or observed any false prophet stuff out of him.

He may get into hyperbole at times. But I can't fault anyone on that.

[Quix]

Fine with me. God honored such in the Bible.

UNLESS the father didn't raise the son very well and humbly.

And many Bible greats didn't either.

And nepotism that refuses to receive exhortation from outside their circle can be deadly and is utterly stupid. They usually self destruct by implosion in due course--having shredded plenty of people in the process on the family altar to the family bidness.

God doesn't like idols of any kind.

[hummingbird]

My all time fave is Robert Tilton....fraud.

He is a riotous fraud! There is a clip on the Internet of him doing his eye-squenching, false tongue-talking sweating scam and someone has added gas emitting sounds (farts) to just the appropriate moments. If Tilton was a true man of the cloth and hadn't gotten busted for taking his TV flock to the cleaners with his "prayer cloths," I would be horrified at the clip. As it is, I saw it at a party and have never laughed so hard in my petite, dainty hummingbird life! Can't find it but if you ever come across it, be sure to have your keyboard covered if you are drinking while viewing. Its that hysterical and you don't want to ruin your keyboard spewing.

[hummingbird]

Charles Stanley is very good, IMHO, and I agree with your assessment of him.

[jimfree]

A total of 31 churches appear on the 100 Largest Churches list.

And I'm missing what?

[TexanToTheCore]

I go to a giga church and it is amazing how it manages to serve people with different styles of worship. Contemporary, rock, traditional and more. We even have one service that is a "small town church service" and it is all of that.

The giga churches are very complex organizations that seem to speak to a lot of people.

[pissant]

Well said Quix. I've listened to Joel enough to know he is a serious Christian. I just have a hard time with the strong emphasis on bettering our personal "fortune". Money, success, and quality friends are great things. But it is NOT the core message of Jesus. I heard Joel urge his congregation members to distance themselves from "those friends who bring you down"; the complainers, the imbibers, the depressed, etc.

I say Christ's message is to be strong and help those type of people raise up. Teach them to fish. I just prefer the teachings of selfless devotion to the down and out. My Church (Catholic) sponsors homeless women's shelter, drug and alcohol rehab, Nursing home ministries, unwanted child adoption, food banks, etc. I don't know if his congregation does the same, but I've never heard him mention this type of ministry.

St. Francis was a true hero. One who was born to privilege, but gave it all up to teach the rich and poor alike to find Jesus.

[Quix]

I think Charles Stanley and James Robinson/Robison are tops, too.

I would not be surprised, however, if it turns out that Paul and Jan Crouch's hearts are in the right place. But they come from a Pentecostal tradition that too often went in for noise and hoopla as though that aided the anointing or as a substitute for the anointing.

It's more a cultural subgroup affectation/set of customs and habits than a bad faith/bad heart attitude thing. I believe that they earnestly do their utmost to help The Kingdom, the cause of Christ, the poor every way they can to the best of their knowledge and understanding. They do have the burden of dragging their rearing and personalities around with them through which they filter all that. But we all have that problem.

I believe Joyce Meyer is at least as earnest and does her best to be right and righteous in her choices, attitudes, actions as well as she knows how. In a lot of respects, I respect her more than the rest because she's been through tons of years of suffering and risen above it.

Yes, she's a bit brazen. I can't fault anyone for that.

She's fiercely assertive and convinced of what she teaches. I can't fault that.

Every book I've read of her's and every program I've watched of hers has brought great fruit in my life toward strengthening my hand in The Lord; drawing me closer to Him; helping me deal with the enemy of my soul better; helping my psychology/stinkin-thinkin and my relationships etc. That's pretty good fruit, in my book.

I don't begrudge her the wealth stuff as long as she's honorable about it and I believe she is. I believe a lot of the stuff is carping by the jealous and stirred up stuff by the enemy.

Benny Hinn is a bit of a different kettle of fish. God certainly uses some birds of rare plumage. I only have to look in the mirror to know that.

I fault Benny most for his outrageous excesses for no evident good reason. His pride seems to have historically ran away with him more than a little and more than a few times.

Folk of Charles Stanley's persuasion can have similar problems with pride but they package it more socially acceptably--which doesn't really cut it with God but seems to fool a lot of the rest of us. I'm not saying that Charles Stanley is that way--he seems reasonably humble enough for a man of his position. But many believing his list of doctrines are as consumed by pride as Benny Hinn has been.

Benny seems to have (and reportedly has been) severely chasened of The Lord a number of times. It might still appear that the job is not done. I don't know. I rarely watch him.

It does appear, however, that GOD STILL CHOOSES TO USE HIM. And God is THE BOSS. It is NOT all show and fakery by a long shot. Now, a number of things could be going on with that.

The Bible teaches that the gifts and callings of God are without recall, essentially.

And, we know that some of the mighty men of God in the last century had some serious problems--one was an alcoholic yet brought many people to Salvation and was a channel for healing of many.

And rarely has a truly humble one come along and stayed humble after being raised up significantly.

And, I know of a couple of relatives of mine who ended up in a distant town say 2-3 days drive from their home. They had been raised in church but were quite far from God. They decided they'd hold a revival. Somehow they got a hold of a tent and did just that. Preached up a storm. Had effective altar calls and ushered a number of people into The Kingdom of God. Some of them later ran into my relatives and they were still good believers.

But the preaching and Scripture had no effect on my relatives who'd heard it all plenty beforehand anyway. They just wanted offerings to get back home on--which they did.

Certainly part of what must be happening in a lot of these cases is that GOD'S WORD DOESN'T RETURN VOID. And, ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH, SO BE IT UNTO YOU--regardless of the channel of the encouragement to extend, exercise that faith. And, the gifts and callings are irrevocable.

There are mysteries here for us linear thinkers who like things in tidy black and white boxes. But God seems to navigate these mysteries quite well enough to suit Himself. I suspect when we see things from Heaven's perspective, we'l 'understand it better, by and by.'

The VERY HAZARDOUS THING is for anyone--PARTICULARLY ANY BELIEVER to judge one of these characters, one of these birds of rare plumage--especially out of a flesh judgment vs a Holy Spirit discernment; ESPECIALLY in an area where there's hidden fault on the part of the judger on the same score as the judged rare bird. THAT sort of thing WILL GET ONE IN DEEP DOO DOO WITH THE BOSS--though it doesn't always pay out that way instantly--The Boss may let you think you've gotten away with it for years, even. But sooner or later, the judgment chickens WILL come home to roost. And chicken sh*t doesn't make good make-up, nor eye-liner.

I prefer to take Christ's attitude that those who are not overtly, actively, genuinely against Him/us/The Church and who are sharing THE WORD at all authentically in any significant respect--PRAISE GOD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, I'll consider them brothers and siters in good standing unless and untill THE BOSS makes abundantly clear it's otherwise.

Yes! A lot of them jangle my sensibilities. Sometimes I cringe in embarrassment and humiliation with memories called up by their antics--memories of embarrassing services and acting out on the part of some Pentecostal yeahoo in years past.

But I'm not their judge nor master. God is. IF THEY GET ONE SOUL into The Kingdom, HALLELUJAH. If they are a channel of healing for one suffering body or mind--Praise The Lord. God is their judge and paymaster. Unless He gives me a prophetic/exhortive word for them that is some aspect of loving discipline or warning--I'd rather just cheer them on.

I realize there all kinds of allegations about various aspects of Benny Hinn's ministry. I have no idea how many are true. I do know GOD IS A BIG GOD AND MISSES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING INCLUDING THE BRIEF FLEETING THOUGHTS IN THE DARK OF OUR BEDROOMS AS WE GO TO SLEEP. JESUS IS WELL ABLE TO CLEAN BENNY UP AND PRESENT HIM BLAMELESS BEFORE THE FATHER. Jesus is the author and finisher of Benny's faith and of Benny just as He is of me. That's sufficient, for me.

I believe mostly Benny tries to do the Biblical honorable thing. Sometimes I think he, too, has gotten caught up in the traditional Pentecostal hoopla customs of a bygone era or subculture. And then has been too prone to let rationalized choice after rationalized choice follow and get him quite askew from God's best or even what's plainly right vs wrong to everyone else looking on. I pray he's learned the lessons from those falls. But I don't learn all my lessons the first few times either. Sometimes I don't learn them the first many dozen times.

I extend mercy to all of them because I need and want mercy.

But I also have somewhat of an obligation to my Christian brothers to call a spade a spade when at all fitting and called for by Holy Spirit. And I do. Believe me. And I have the battle scars to prove it--layers of scars.

But I'd rather bless them and leave them to God to clean up. I can't even clean myself up. I have no business judging and rushing out with a scalpel to dissect them according to MY standards and script in MY flesh.

Perhaps one key factor is that LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS--Love nailed to The Cross certainly did and does. And, I believe that when we have generally repentant hearts and actively endeavor to walk in confessed/repented of sin--AS WE SEEK EARNESTLY TO ACT OUT OF HEARTS IN LOVE WITH GOD and loving toward those around us . . . The Father must cover over a lot of our craziness all the time--on all our parts.


So much for my 2 cents.

Blessings,

[Quix]

I agree.

[pissant]

I haven't seen the "doctored" Tilton video, but I get hooked for laughs every time I see this guy on the tube. But I feel bad for little old ladies who send their last $1K to this clown in the desparate hopes that he can do something for them. Anyone other than a little old lady has my scorn for feeding this clown's "ministry".

[Quix]

Joel often doesn't pull punches either. But he does try to get the medicine to go down with a spoon full of sugar.

He challenges each individual as much as Charles Stanley does, in my book.

Mostly, the STYLE is different. I don't believe the substance is GREATLY different except that Joel probably focuses more often more in individual and relationship growth according to Biblical principles--while Stanley is much more of a traditional expository preacher declaring Biblical truth fairly starkly with some illustrations for application. I think Joel tends to slip a lot of Biblical truth in via a lot of application/daily life examples and a bare bones point or 3 of Biblical truth.

I think one could easily feel like Charles gave more meat because it's a bit harder driving with Biblical point after point. But I think Joel is more apt to get more people thinking more personally about more serious application of the Biblical truth items he's focusing on in that message. I think Joel tends to slip a lot more things underneath the skin to allow Holy Spirit to niggle you with them during the week. Charles seems to be more content dense (per number of minutes or words) and intellectual about it.

But Holy Spirit can use either one to convict substantially as it's all straightforwardly Biblical principles, on the whole and overwhelmingly.

Doesn't make one necessarily any more righteous than the other. Different listeners will benefit differently from both.

--another 2 of my cents.

[hummingbird]

He certainly has taken advantage of desperate people which makes the mocking of him on the Internet all that more hysterical and justified. Shame on him for what he has done. He is a con artist, a sham who has been exposed numerous times. How does he get back on TV? I'll make a note; if I ever find the clip again, I'll send it along.

[Quix]

There's a ton of Jezebel spirit running around loose all over RELIGION of every persuasion, stripe, denomination. I see no more, per se, amongst the sorts of ministries listed than I do in other denominations. Some hide it better than others.

[Quix]

I think Robison is one of the most humble on the stage. Sometimes it may make him come across as gullible or naive--which he's not. He may give others too much of the benefit of the doubt too often, but I'd rather err on that side, too.

He's also been through the 'spiritual brother shredder' plenty of times and still come out with a sweet spirit. That's Jesus!

[Quix]

Actually, repentance and humility can be quite attractive for those serious for authentic spirituality. And there IS A GREAT HUNGER FOR THAT the world over.

Of course, we have to be willing to pay the price. Many are. Many aren't.

[Quix]

Yes, I've heard Joel mention such ministries of their org. But I too think he could emphasize it more as well as emphasize how to more effectively be yoke-fellows with those suffering, needy etc. But he is not absent great efforts in that department. Sufficient efforts? Do any of us ever do sufficiently in such matters? Eternity will tell.

Works for works' sake can be a sham and evil as anything else religious. IT IS ALL TO BE *AS UNTO THE LORD* AUTHENTICALLY.

And, yea but for the grace of God, go I.

And I've heard Joel take that attitude and stance.

[jettester]

Here is the link:

http://www.religionisbullshit.com/fpreach.htm

Sorry for the link title.