STUDY REPORTS ON TOP 100 LARGEST AND FASTEST-GROWING CHURCHES

Christian e-tailing ^ | May 3, 2004 | None named

[pissant]

I don't consider a $300 dollar suit and a $50 watch and a comfortable home for a Pastor "a vow of poverty". I do consider a multi-million dollar home, 3 Mercedes, and a $50K wardrobe beyond the pale for a man of the cloth.

I have nothing against wealth. I work hard for my family. The following is from the book of Matthew:

The Rich Young Man

16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18"Which ones?" the man inquired.
19Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,'[4] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[5] "
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[6] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

The next is from Luke 19:

Zacchaeus the Tax Collector

1Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3He wanted to see who Jesus was, but being a short man he could not, because of the crowd. 4So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.
5When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today." 6So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
7All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a 'sinner.' "
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."
9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

Of course you can find many quotes, particularily in the Old Testament, extolling the blessings of wealth. But Jesus did not, nor did his disciples. Thus for a Christian ministry to EMPHASIZE wealth and success is not a ministry I want to join.

Cheers

[pissant]

I mostly agree with you. THe Two basic tenets of Christainity should be: Believe in the Lord as the path to Salvation, and follow Christ's teachings to the best of our ability.

Praying for health, wisdom, family, etc. is great. Praying that you get promoted to corporate manager is a little silly. See my reply to RightOnline (post #141) on this thread.

[TRY ONE]

So where's the list of the TOP 100?

[RightOnline]

One word: Context. You fall into the trap of taking scripture entirely and in whole out of its proper context. This is a hoary old trick that only convinces those who don't know "the rest of the story", to paraphrase Paul Harvey.

Want to read a good book on the subject of wealth for God's people? Read Dr. John Avanzini's "Rich God, Poor God". Incredibly well researched and thorough on this topic. Not all subscribe to his interpretations, but you will have a very different look at "it's holy to be poor" as a belief system.

[pissant]

I do not believe it is "holy to be poor" or in "sackcloth & ashes" lifestyles. I live a fine middle class lifestyle and begrudge no-one who is wealthy or desires to be so.

My point is that Christians are the followers of Jesus. Jesus does not care if you are a cab driver or a hollywood plastic surgeon. He cares what is in our hearts and about the deeds we do. One's work to acquire wealth and comfort is fine, but it means nothing to God unless that wealth is used to good ends.

You can read the Gospels 'til the cows come home and won't find Christ state that He or the Father care about an individuals wealth.

If people want to spend time listening to 'Tony Robbins with a Mullet' tell them to feel good about wealth accumulation, that's fine. Just don't think it was Jesus' message and it ain't my cup of tea.

[RightOnline]

......but yet you show such a condescending attitude towards preachers or others who don't agree with you. What sort of religion would we have if we were expected to constantly live in want? God wants his people to prosper.......and I have pointed you to sources with a wealth of references proving that very point.

[redgolum]

Sorry I didn't reply, I just moved!

WELS is an interesting case. They do have some things that seem a bit extreme to outsiders (like not going to non WELS weddings or funerals). But before anyone gets to upset about that, until about 100 years ago, every denomination had the same rules. I remember a story from the town I grew up in where Catholics and Lutherans would not SHOP at the same stores, much less remain in the room while one was praying.

Over all, the WELS numbers are shrinking though. They are trying to fight the on rush of liberalism in a manner that would make some of the RCC "Rad Trads" blush, and as a result many are leaving. I don't blame them, it is one thing (and a very necessary one!) to be orthodox, it is another to blast other churches from the pulpit on a regular basis.

[redgolum]

WOW! Just got to your post, and it seems like you have ran into some of the UBER WELS!

[Quix]

Not sure I get your meaning.

Thanks for your reply.

[Quix]

Excellent points.

I could accept blasting even other groups IF

God Himself was REALLY doing that. But it's a very hazardous thing to assume based on traditions of men; petty personal biases and personal egos; control freak stuff etc.

And the sad thing--the very sad thing--is the numbers of individuals of great standing with real amounts of authentic Love of The Lord who get shredded by the ORGANIZATION IN THE NAME OF THE ORGANIZATION though they pretend it's FOR JESUS.

WELS doesn't have a corner on that either. But they sure provide plenty of glaring examples of it.

And the entrenched stubbornness on top of that . . . Sigh.

[paix]

I think God wants man to prosper and at the same time be true to himself... in doing so honors the Creator.

Our ability, our reason, is a precious gift bestowed upon us by Him.

Yes, it is a thin line, but the gate is narrow as well.

[paix]

For me, this is my church... you know the thing about where two or more gather.

P.S. I don't have TV, but do have a home theatre system with DVD and vidoes. It's better that way. If I want news, I go online.