Why even ask what's wrong with adult-child sex?

Illinois Leader ^ | 09 April 2004 | Robert Oliver

[Skywalk]

While I think the age limit for OUR civilization should be a bit higher(as children are not asked to become adults as quickly) I don't think Jeff Gordon's point is a bad one.

Many civilizations across the globe married girls off as soon as they hit puberty. While this is not the optimal state of affairs for our society and indeed I would look down on an older man who slept with a girl around that age, I don't think it is harmful to discuss from where certain standards were derived.

It must be pointed out too, that for boys puberty does not take effect as soon or as rapidly as for girls. Also, Jeff Gordon is talking about pubescent females rather than PRE--which is what makes one a pedophile, I assume.

[Skywalk]

But the Holy Spirit impregnating Mary clearly comes from the tradition of Gods impregnating mortals(and in much more lewd ways) be it Zeus appearing as a "Golden Shower"(please, I mean no jokes by that) to Danae or as a bull and taking Europa or whoever else he had sex with and impregnated.

Other myths are filled with such tales too. Yes, as portrayed in the Bible, there is no intercourse, yet pregnant she was. This is not terrible--it was a different world.

But that's Jeff's point. What might have been right for their time, is no longer right for us--and the sexual attraction to and abuse of prepubscent children is a heinous act. But one must be clear on distinctions otherwise it becomes a logical and moral mess.

[Jeff Gordon]

Your cognitive dissonances are the purest evidence of your idiocy.

I suspected you were the judgemental sort.

See Luke 6:36-37.

[Skywalk]

Well, even back then, life expectancy was quite low, more due to high infant mortality rates and death during pregnancy as well.

But tons of people lived into their fifties, sixties and even longer.

As for agitating? I don't know. I think it's an interesting debate. Surely Jeff never meant prepubescent children, but the controversy over statutory rape, age differential limits, age of consent, etc is an interesting one and you have to be armed with facts in order to wade through it all.

That said, 13 or 14 year olds getting married today is not a desirable situation.

[cyncooper]

Well, as an anthropology major I am quite familiar with mythology, thank you very much.

The difference between myth and an actual happening hopefully hasn't escaped your notice.

Jeff's point was not on point and certainly did not pertain to pedophilia.

[cyncooper]

No, you haven't.

[scripter]

So could it be plausible that two members of NAMBLA who would cohabit and claim to be married may want to adopt a boy or boys? Or even gays who have a sexual orientation called pederasty.

Homosexuals, being around 2% (including bisexuals) of the population, account for a third of child molestations. Sources:

Child Molestation and Homosexuality
Homosexual Rape and Murder of Children
Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse
Homosexuality and child molestation: the link, the likelihood, the lasting effects.

[Petronski]

I just call 'em as I see 'em, troll.

You throw blasphemy bombs and then play holier than thou when someone points out your idiocy, and that gives you the moral high ground?

Right.

But then again, I guess being a Jeff Gordon fan you're quite accustomed to obscene positions.

[Skywalk]

It seems that you merely applied the standards of anthropology to OTHER religions and not yours. That did not escape my notice. But that really isn't the issue here, so let's put that aside.

I think some of it is on topic, but only tangentially. For instance, the Catholic priest scandal is portrayed by the media as priests preying on children, prepubescent children. While it's possible this has happened on more than a few occasions, the actual facts of these cases reveal that gay-curious(is that a word?) teenage boys of sexually mature age engaged in activities with an older man in authority, in this case a priest.

While there are a number of immoral elements to such behavior, it is indeed a far cry from old priests raping little kids. It becomes a bit greyer, as the teenaged boys(often 15,16, and 17) have the wherewithal and common sense to report any abuse of authority and to physically resist the priest if that were their wish. I'm sure many did. But it is also the case that many did not. Perhaps they were already gay? I don't know.

But that entire scandal does make one wonder about how we define certain limits and why a 15 year old boy or girl can't be held responsible for a murder of anothre human being but can't be perceived as being sexual without some "abuse" being present.

[MarkL]

Why even ask what's wrong with adult-child sex?

"If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand..."

And you would need a serious beating!

To quote the kids from South Park, "Dude! You want to have sex with kids! That really F****D up!"

Mark

[justanotherday]

good point. If Mass courts are successful in legalizing homosexual marriage, which would have the government sanction abnormal sexual activity, then the for-sale sign goes up on my house. I'm heading north to New Hampshire.

[justanotherday]

"The Virgin Mary was 14 years old when impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Does this make the Holy Spirit a pedophile?"

Are you posting this to start a conversation, or do you believe in pedoplia? Just curious.

[iconoclast]

tons of people lived into their fifties, sixties and even longer.

Like Joseph, for instance? Tons? A silly exaggeration.

13 or 14 year olds getting married today is not a desirable situation.

Given today's ridiculously extended adolescence, 30 year olds shouldn't be getting married.

[iconoclast]

Is this what they call moral relativism?

Not at all. It's called a modicum of historical knowledge + a dash of common sense.

[MegaSilver]

But the Holy Spirit impregnating Mary clearly comes from the tradition of Gods impregnating mortals(and in much more lewd ways) be it Zeus appearing as a "Golden Shower"(please, I mean no jokes by that) to Danae or as a bull and taking Europa or whoever else he had sex with and impregnated.

Not necessarily. It is true that St. Luke placed more emphasis on the Virgin Birth in his Gospel, probably because he was a Greek and more apt to document something that struck a chord with his own culture's traditions.

Still, that does not necessarily prove that the canon of the Virgin Birth is something drawn from Greek Mythology rather than a doctrine developed on its own. For one thing, the Gospel of St. Matthew also alludes to a Virgin Birth, and St. Matthew himself was ethnically Hebrew and religiously Jewish. For another, the idea of Virgin Birth is rather different from the tradition of, as you put it, "gods impregnating morals (and in much more lewd ways)."

Finally, the prediction of a Virgin Birth is alluded to in the prophet Isaiah's prediction of the Suffering Servant in chapter 53 verse 2: "He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground."

[Skywalk]

No, assuming you got past age 5, you had a good chance of living well beyond your 40s.
Now that may not have been the case in EVERY society(especially hunter-gatherers) but in civilized nations/empires this was not uncommon. As common as today? no--because many didn't live past their first year and others died in battle.

As for the extended adolescence--we agree. It's gotten ridiculous, and part of it comes from societal pressure that tells even mid-20s aged people "you're too young" or from bitter divorcees trying to turn everyone else away from marriage, kids, etc.

[little jeremiah]

Your comment is not only stupid, you are being offensive on purpose. You are either very young, or very immature. Shame on you.

[Jeff Gordon]

do you believe in pedoplia?

No, I do not "believe in" or approve of pedophilia.

However, I do not see it as a black and white issue. I think most civilized people have justified anathemas against adult humans having sex with prepubescent humans. The gray area comes post puberty. The age of consent in Tokyo City is 12. The age of consent in many states is 18. Crossing an invisible civil line can change an honest citizen into a pedophile (just like carrying a concealed weapon across and invisible like can make an honest citizen into a felon).

[little jeremiah]

Many 13 or 14 year old girls are sexually mature. There's a difference between a man MARRYING a 14 year old girl in a culture and time which supports those marriages, and pedophiles molesting children.

You must see the difference and are being an a**hole on purpose, as evidenced by your previous comment.

[justanotherday]

"The gray area comes post puberty. The age of consent in Tokyo City is 12. "

This suggests every society needs to set standards based on prevailing moral attitudes. No doubt every society has its challenges on occasion, but the value systems that have sustained that society need to prevail at the end of the day.