Warming climate disrupts Alaska natives' lives

Reuters ^ | Tuesday, April 20, 2004 | Yereth Rosen

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

If you want to see how the climate is changing, go to the extremes.

Once again, this is very much proof that things are changing. The debate still remains, however as to whether it is human activity that is causing or contributing to the change.

As a student of Pasteur's Wager, I would say the risk of doing nothing outweighs that of taking action. I know many of you out there disagree.

[noutopia]

The first Earth Day they talked about Global Cooling.Whats up wit dat?

[capt. norm]

You have fallen into the Global Warming trap.

Even if we did everything humanly possible, it would have virtually no effect on global climate.

Climate is one of those elements of nature over which we have zero control.

We could sit around, wring our hands and sing Kum-ba-ya for the next 20 years and it would have the same effect on the climate as implimenting the Kyoto Protocol.

Some of us humans just don't realize how tiny and almost insignificant we are when compared to large systems like the world's climate.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

You sir alone are tiny and insignificant compared to the global climate. So am I and every other individual member of the human species.

However, the exponential growth of our population, economy and corresponding use of resources, including emissions of CO2 are cumulatively enough to affect the very big "commons" we call the global climate.

Hundreds of billions of tons of CO2 previously stored in the ground and released into the atmosphere year after year is everything but insignificant.

The atmosphere is a sink. That sink has a drain. But, if you pour more into the sink than goes out of the drain eventually it will overflow.

Yes it is more complicated than that. But yes, it is also that simple.

Sitting on your hands and saying boo hoo, we poor little humans are so insignificant and helpless that there is no way we caused it and there is nothing we can do about it is either propaganda of the oil and coal industry or just Nero playing his fiddle.

[germanicus]

Arctic pack ice is disappearing, making food scarce for sea animals and causing difficulties for the Natives who hunt them. . As trees and bushes march north over what was once tundra, so do beavers...

Hmmm...trees and shrubs for building and heating sources, beavers for food and fur, new lakes created by damming for alternative fishing. Humans are quite adaptable.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

The first Earth Day they talked about Global Cooling.Whats up wit dat?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1042561/posts

Not sure if they were talking about this or not. Apparently the science is not so clear.

[KeyWest]

Mars, Neptune and Mercury are warming.

The sun is going through a cycle and we have little knowledge of long term sun cycles.

An ice age usually follows a gradual, long term rise in temperature.

CO2 levels are lower now than they were 70 million years ago, before we had cyclic ice ages. Some think the rise of the Himalayas acted as a CO2 sink and caused the reduction.

So we may be postponing or preventing a future ice age by increasing the CO2 levels.

[capt. norm]

I operate the Weather Lab at Panama City (Florida) and have spent the better part of my life studying this.

The human contibution in this matter is insignificant. You can speak in huge numbers about greenhouse gases released by the activities and industries of humans, and if every single bit of it were to stop tomorrow, it would make no discernable difference.

The global warming bunko is agenda-driven and is routinely proven to be so.

The models they are using cannot even deal with water vapor, which is, by far, the most abundant and significant greehouse gas. These models can not even reproduce past climates without a lot of 'tweaking' to get the desired results.

This is my fulltime pursuit, and I do not take it lightly.

[Lazamataz]

Warming climate disrupts Alaska natives' lives

Change or die.

[Lazamataz]

....ctivities and industries of humans, and if every single bit of it were to stop tomorrow, it would make no discernable difference.

It would to me. I like those cool microwave ovens 'n Playstation II's 'n SUV's 'n nice clothing 'n stuff.

[KeyWest]

Also add Jupiter to the warming list.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1122986/posts

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

Change or die.

Is this an enlightened comment addressed to the gas guzzling, coal burning global polluters or a crude remark to a small population living in a remote place that is feeling the initial effects of climate change?

[Lazamataz]

Is this an enlightened comment addressed to the gas guzzling, coal burning global polluters or a crude remark to a small population living in a remote place that is feeling the initial effects of climate change?

We have more industry and guns and stuff, so Agloolik the Inuit better start slatherin' on the SPF 50 sunblock.

[Lazamataz]

BTW, I've never seen a bleeding heart bleed Green before.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

I appreciate what you are saying, but from where I am sitting, I don't see anything coming from you but opinions.

Please explain to me how the increase in the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere since the dawn of the indutrial age has gone from about 280 ppm to 370 ppm with most of that increase since 1960 - corresponding to the exponential growth in the use of fossil fuels with subsequent CO2 emissions?

That is one heck of a coincindence don't you think?

And, will there really be no effect if this 30% increase quickly become 100% over the next several decades - assuming we go along with the your and Bush's recommended course of action?

It seems to me that those who don't want to beleive that humans are causing climate change at first said it wasn't happeneing. Now, faced with changes like those in Alaska, they are saying humans did not cause. And, some even claim that we are "preventing" another ice age. That is one heck of a gamble to take with our climate, especially when there are viable technological alternatives.

Perhaps you get the funding for your organization from an oil company?

[SamAdams76]

What can we possibly do about it? We have had ice ages and warm spells all through history. The ground under my feet (New England) was under several hundred feet of ice just 20,000 years ago and will be again. This cycle has repeated itself for 30,000,000 years - well before humans or even dinosaurs walked the earth.

So we are pretty vain to think all this "global warming" and "ice age" stuff is on account of us and that we can prevent it by passing a bunch of silly regulations. Fact is that human civilization developed only over the past few thousand years. We do not seem to realize that this is only a tiny sliver of time so far as the Earth is concerned and that our civilization probably happened to develop during a relatively tranquil period of our Earth's climate.

[moonman]

"He cited the cost — estimated at over $100 million — of moving Shishmaref, an Inupiat Eskimo village on Alaska's northwestern coastline, to more stable ground. The village of 600 is on the verge of tumbling into the Bering Sea ..."

That is over $166,667 per Eskimo. Just give them the money and a 1-way ticket to Miami.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

Go back to your cave, and let the people with something intelligent to contribue continue on this thread.

[LadyDoc]

20 000 years ago, Minnesota was under a glacier.

20 000 years ago, the Sahara was a grasslands. Indeed, you still can visit the central sahara of Southern Algeria/northern Chad and see rock paintings of men hunting gazelle and elephants.

The Mayan, the Ashkanzi and the Mississippian cultures all disappeared from climate change a hundred years before Colombus.

We are in the recovery phase after "the little ice age". Crops that the Romans grew in England now are growing again.

Climates change. The question is twofold. Is the climate changing: Answer yes.

Question two: is the climate changing due to pollution. Answer questionable. You see, a single volcano or asteroid would cause more pollution than all our factories.

Question three: should we stop pollution. Answer: yes, and go back to living like our ancestors. But not us, merely other people. The Europeans want the US to stop polluting, but don't follow the treaty themselves.

When I go to Manila, I see "globalization": Pollution, traffic, people living in slums working long hours in factories, etc.

But my husband points out that maybe working 12 hours in a factory, coming home to a slum house with no running water, but being able to relax, watch TV, and eat a factory raised chicken is better than working 12 hours planting rice in the hot sun, coming home, eating only rice and a little vegetables--and in famine season not having enough to eat.

And for rural folks, taking away our gasoline SUV and tractors means going back to the mules and walking 12 miles to shop. No more Walmart. Just make our dresses from flour sacks, I guess. And Malthus calculated that mules/oxen would eat more than could be planted, and so people would starve, so stop people from having babies and don't help poor people in times of famine, you only prolong their suffering. A lot of English believed him... and so they let the Irish starve...a million refused to starve and came to the USA...and reject the expert opinions from the philosophical ancestors of Malthus.

[capt. norm]

You need to read more. It's all out there on this internet.

Nice shot about the funding, but no, it doesn't come from oil companies or any energy-related sources.

You seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker for the heavily-funded, agenda-driven global warming line.

Just search back through previous posts on this forum and you will get enough of both sides of the issue to draw your own conclusions.

The "Search" function is your friend.