Army Extends Tours Despite 1-Year Pledge

Yahoo News ^ | Wed, Apr 14, 2004 | ROBERT BURNS,

[dwilli]

I never said all were out of shape. Have you seen the interviews with the 35-45 year olds serving in Iraq?

Combat is a young man's or career military game. I appreciate what the reserves are doing but the NG and
Reserve units were never meant to be fully deployed in a combat zone.

What would we do if the units were needed in the states
for a major catastrophe?

[dwilli]

How about the Administration and Pentagon telling the first wave into Iraq the rotation was 12 months?

[xzins]

but the NG and Reserve units were never meant to be fully deployed in a combat zone.

Their primary mission is to be deployed into a combat zone. Catastrophe intervention is only a tertiary mission of the NG/AR.

You can check that by going to the website of any State NG and checking their mission statement.

[dwilli]

You're pretty free with the "we're" going to do so and so.

Are you saying that if the troops will try not to lose the battle, you'll try not to lose the remote control?

[xzins]

Protecting Our World, Our Federal Mission

During peacetime each state National Guard answers to the leadership in the 50 states, three territories and the District of Columbia. During national emergencies, however, the President reserves the right to mobilize the National Guard, putting them in federal duty status. While federalized, the units answer to the Combatant Commander of the theatre in which they are operating and, ultimately, to the President.

Even when not federalized, the Army National Guard has a federal obligation (or mission.) That mission is to maintain properly trained and equipped units, available for prompt mobilization for war, national emergency, or as otherwise needed.

The Army National Guard is a partner with the Active Army and the Army Reserves in fulfilling the country's military needs. In fiscal year 2001, Army Guard soldiers pulled duty in more than 80 countries in a wide variety of operations including peacekeeping, stabilization, security, nation building, etc. Below are a few examples of how the Army National Guard is fulfilling its federal mission.

[dwilli]

NG units are under the command of the State Governor. The President must mobilize in order for then to serve overseas.

[Polybius]

Only served eight years myself but to say These Marines and soldiers should just grin and bear it is bullshit. The were promised rotation after 12 months in country.

In my 20 years of active and reserve service, I can't ever recall any orders ever being issued to me and have never hear of any orders ever issued to my wife, to my brother, to my sister, to my uncle or to my brother-in-law (who came back from his second tour as a helo pilot in Iraq this past month) or to any other sevicemember with "promises" attached.

My wife's grandfather was even called back to active duty after several years of retirement from the Navy and shipped off to the South Pacific "for the duration" after Pearl Harbor.

The five operative words that were drummed into our heads again and again and again were, "the needs of the service".

[xzins]

See #45.

They have a dual mission. The president trumps the governors.

[xzins]

My orders always had reporting time and date. Pretty scimpy on details after that.

[Ramius]

Like so many, we have those that think anybody in a war zone really *wants* to be there. Of course not. Anybody in Iraq would rather be in Jamaica drinking sweet drinks with little umbrellas in them. Including, I suppose, some Iraqis.

Some of these people are reservists that should be home doing whatever job they were in before they left. Of course they are. Some of these good men and women have been killed. Yes they have. More will be before this is over. We know that.

While I would be at a loss to explain the death of a son or a father to someone that feels the loss personnally, that is always the case. Do people die senselessly in war? Of course they do. Did good men die senselessly in the invasion of Normandy? Yes, they did, and they number in the thousands. But the truth remains that the invasion at Normandy did in fact have to happen.

The invasion of Iraq, as it will sit with historians some years hence, did also have to happen. It may well be that it turns out to be of even more import than the defeat of the germans. A free and democratic Iraq is not even something on the radar of the muslim extremists. This is really important stuff.

[dwilli]

My wife's grandfather was even called back to active duty after several years of retirement from the Navy and shipped off to the South Pacific "for the duration" after Pearl Harbor. Appreciate your explaining that to me. I assume he would have been in at least his fifties, inactive reserve, military obligation fulfilled to all requirements of the Selective Service System

[jwalsh07]

What would we do if the units were needed in the states for a major catastrophe?

One would hope the remaining 270 million of us would find a way to cope.

[xzins]

I keep wondering who murdered all those people on 9/11....no...wait a minute....I ain't wondering that....it was Al Qaeda. Oh yeah.

But, I was never really sure where they were....nope...nope....I wasn't wondering that. They had staging areas throughout the mideast....mostly in Afghan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Sudan, etc.

In any case, I wasn't really sure what to do about it all....what...not again... Yep...what'm I talking about....I had a good idea what to do. Go to where they are and kill them and those who help them. Knock the doors down on any country that's hiding them.

[Polybius]

How about the Administration and Pentagon telling the first wave into Iraq the rotation was 12 months?

Every tour of duty has a projected rotation date. If everything goes smoothly, once that time comes, you get rotated.

If things don't go smoothly, the "needs of the service" kick in and you are extended.

The uprising by the Batthist dead-enders and the Shiite radicals in Iraq this month comes under the heading of "things not going smoothly".

The bottom line is that all rotations occur when they are supposed to occur unless you get extension orders in which case they don't occur. That is true in peacetime, it is true during wartime and it is especially true in the middle of an enemy offensive.

[Dianna]

Having your 1 year deployment in a war zone extended by 25 percent just might be a little different than a ship tying up in its home port a day or so late.

I'll be honest. I was real pissed to find out hubby was late coming home because of some self important blowhard congressman!

But late because we're at war and he's needed? That's the kind of thing WE signed up for.

[Polybius]

My wife's grandfather was even called back to active duty after several years of retirement from the Navy and shipped off to the South Pacific "for the duration" after Pearl Harbor.

Appreciate your explaining that to me. I assume he would have been in at least his fifties, inactive reserve, military obligation fulfilled to all requirements of the Selective Service System.

He was born in 1894 and had been collecting retirement pay for several years before Pearl Harbor after 20 years of active duty service in the U.S. Navy.

The "Selective Service System" had nothing to do with it. The Selective Service deals with civilians and retired Navy is not considered "civilian".

Unless you retire from the Navy with 30 years of service under your belt, you retire as a member of the Fleet Reserve.

If a war breaks out, you need to read the Fleet Reserve fine print. (Below)

From what I heard from my mother-in-law, it seems that he was not a fine-print-reading kinda guy so it came as quite a shock to him when the Navy called him out of retirement back to active duty and shipped him off to the Pacific war theater for the duration. He was so bitter about the whole thing that he told his wife that he wanted no mention of the Navy on his gravestone. After he died, he only had his Masons insignia on his gravestone..........for a few years until his wife added "BMCS, USN (ret.)"

Fleet Reserve — "The Fleet Reserve was established to provide experienced personnel for the first stages of mobilization during an emergency or in time of war. Therefore, the Fleet Reserve is made up of former enlisted members of the regular Navy or Naval Reserve who can fill such billets without further training. As an enlisted member of the regular Navy or Naval Reserve, you are eligible for transfer to the Fleet Reserve upon the completion of at least 20 years of active service in the armed forces. While serving as a member of the Fleet Reserve, you may be ordered to active duty without your consent."

[kms61]

I suspect that this would be a little easier for the families to bear if we were on a full war footing, and everyone were making some kind of sacrifice. As it stands now, for 95% or so of the American population, it's business as usual--while the troops and their families are told to "suck it up, we're in a war."

Well, if we're in a war, let's get serious about it. Mobilize some of those deactivated divisions, get some more boots on the ground.

And yes, at least consider bringing the draft back. Not saying we should do it necessarily, but we should be thinking about it.

[Ramius]

Are you saying that if the troops will try not to lose the battle, you'll try not to lose the remote control?

That's kinda' arrogant, don't you think? Considering that you have no idea who I am, or who I care about that is or might be in harm's way?

Is it a happy thing that troops are being extended beyond the time when CNN promised they'd be home? Of course not. I don't suppose there are many people happy about that. War is funny that way. Things happen in wars that make people unhappy.

I guess we should lobby CNN and find out why they were wrong about what they said. Or maybe send letters to the Secretary of CNN that sits in the Cabinet. Maybe they could explain it.

[CyberAnt]

Aren't they the ones who have been bellyaching for months that we NEEDED MORE SOLDIERS. Now they have their wish - and we can only expect them to complain about it. What else is new?

[Kaslin]

Yes, exactly. It seems like no matter what the president does, he can never do anything right by them. They are a disgusting bunch