Clarifications on the Case for Free Trade

Ludwig von Mises Institute ^ | 4/12/04 | Paul Craig Roberts

[fooman]

Voilently agreed with 1, 2 and 5.


No need to build empire.

Gold standard is bad-it ties the money supply to a metal rather economic growth.

There have been gold shortages in the past (turn of the century, in which I beleive the boar wars were fought over in part) that have caused deflation.

No need to be dependent on third countries for our money supply.. it is bad enough that we are dependant on them for oil. I wrote ten page or so paper on this when I was at U of Chicago, if you are interested.

[XBob]

154 - "Under the system of "free" trade which they defend, we are running a massive trade deficit which is the key indicator of of our trading problems. This massive deficit means that we are spending more than we earn, consuming more than we produce, and trying to build a sound future for our country by borrowing money and selling assets."

The free-traitors are selling our grand children's futures, not even mortgaging it - as a mortgage can be paid off, and you own what ever you mortgaged. And they are going to duck out on payments, and leave our kids and grand kids holding worthless paper, while foreigners own our whole country, and they will procede to collect. The road to serfdom.

[XBob]

155 - "Indeed. So, either the American people stage a political revolution or the Chinese peasants start a shooting war. I think I know which will happen first."

Well, I think, when the time is right, the Chinese will revalue upward, dramatically, and come and take posession of 'their' country here in the US, without firing a shot, as our government hands it over to them.

[XBob]

155 - "Indeed. So, either the American people stage a political revolution or the Chinese peasants start a shooting war. I think I know which will happen first."

How many chinese troops do you think can be carried on just one container ship, with 3500 containers?

[XBob]

157 - "China is already at war with us. Their destruction of our manufacturing base is part of the strategy."

That's what so many free-traitors don't begin to understand. And that war started in the 1970's when 'Mighty' China lost the War with 'tiny' North Vietnam. The chinese pulled back, after being knocked on their butts and started regrouping and rethinking - and it's been going on ever since.

[Poohbah]

How many chinese troops do you think can be carried on just one container ship, with 3500 containers?

A bunch, if you don't care whether or not they will be able to fight when they reach a hostile shore.

Very few, if the above point is actually crucial.

[XBob]

161 - "The free traders like Singapore, Japan, Korea, etc. "

Sorry - I don't know about Singapore, but Japan and Korea have the most protected markets in the world, with tarriff barriers and import restrictions and all kinds of barriers to imports.

That's how they grew - they protected their home industries while developing export businesses.

Take a look at the attempt of Shick to sell razors to Korea as only one example.

[XBob]

have they copied your patents without compensating you?

The japenese patent law (and they changed our laws under clinton?) says if you patent a widget, someone else can patent a red widget and a blue widget and a green widget.

[hedgetrimmer]

The US also used the idea of "reciprocal trade" so that gigantic trade deficits with other countries (like communist China) would occur.

[Iscool]

They certainly don't seem to be on this thread refuting Mr. Robert's ideas.

The free traitors haven't refuted anything yet...They can't...All they do is deny, deny, deny...And then call you a bunch of names...

[XBob]

170 - "replacing labour with robots, so I guess this becomes an Asimov type situation"

The Reagan tarriff barriers caused the japense to build large factories here. the cost of building cars in germany caused the germans to build tiny factories here.

The only exports derived from this are a few thousand BMW specialty vehicles. The rest are designed to become more competitive in the American market against our own manufacturers.

The robots the japanese are using and the robots we are using were designed and built in japan.

"I Robot" may come true.

Azimov had tremendous vision.

[raybbr]

Nice little hissy-fit. No one has yet shown me that this theory will work. There has always been regulation of some kind to trade. Why fix something that isn't broke unless you are goiing to be one of the lucky ones to benefit from it?

[XBob]

that was back in the days of a strong dollar, when they were 'buying' our factory equipment.

[XBob]

172 - "the two giants should be integrated in the world economy by 2020,"

The will be CONTROLLING the world's economy by that time.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry - I don't know about Singapore, but Japan and Korea have the most protected markets in the world, with tarriff barriers and import restrictions and all kinds of barriers to imports.

That's how they grew - they protected their home industries while developing export businesses.

So now we should copy the Japanese?

After all, they had a trade surplus of over $90 billion in 2002. Is that your recommendation?

[XBob]

185-"The US Government enjoys a social contract with the citizens of the country, based on the quaint notion that the Gummint and its officers will promote and protect the US citizen (that includes workers) from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Our Gummint, beginning with Nixon, accelerating markedly with X42, and currently with the Clueless George in office, seems to have forgotten their part of the social contract."

The free-traitors seem to have forgotten the founding principals of our government, as have our current globalist leadership.

The corporations have even forgotten they are american.

I have to laugh at General Motors - the Chinese have stolen a whole car design and production from them (while I cry at their greedy stupidity)

[dimk]

Unfortunately there is nothing much to discuss left here. There are two sides here. One calls other traitors(doesn't help with the argument), I personally don't care since I am a damn Canadian lol but if I were American I would take exception to that :)

Half of the arguments presented here refer to trade in the form that was done in the days of British Empire. King(government) issued permission for one trade company which then traded in specific are of interest. Those days are gone. People here really want government to control how much and where companies may sell or buy?? /boggle Seriously in the modern times even China has freer system. Only old USSR operated in that mode(did not work too good for them). Do you realize the massive damage it will do to your own economy?

Nobody replied to what I posted in my first post. Argument that marginal product has some "inherent" value outside of the price supported by the market is preposterous. Half of the argument in that article is based on that premise, Chinese and Indians underpricing the marginal product their workers are producing. It is false. There is no min price for doing anything.

One can agree with the argument given in the article about mobility of the means of production. However does that mean that trade is bad? No. When US companies trade with India do you really think there is not a SINGLE good that Americans are better/more efficient at producing? Because if we in North America are that sad, we should all commit sepuku and be done with it. But somehow I don't think thats the case.

[XBob]

Ever been there, cronos? I have. And I have been subject to 'legal' shakedowns, personally.

[XBob]

233 - "Not really, we became a great nation through trade, free trade with the rest of the world. That's why American companies dominate the top 100 companies in the world."

Sorry - we never were a great trading/exporting nation. We became a great nation through internal trade (within the US) where we developed the largest market in the world, which we used to essentially have to ourselves.

Now we have the market, and the capacity to support it has been exported.

[XBob]

246 - "How many chinese troops do you think can be carried on just one container ship, with 3500 containers?
A bunch, if you don't care whether or not they will be able to fight when they reach a hostile shore.
Very few, if the above point is actually crucial."

Sorry, I routinely outfitted containers as living quarters on some overseas jobs, made my office in one, and we regularly intercept containers full of illegal chinese entering the US.

A bit of work and design, and a 50,000 capacity troop ship could be outfitted in no time.