Clarifications on the Case for Free Trade

Ludwig von Mises Institute ^ | 4/12/04 | Paul Craig Roberts

[XBob]

81-"Just why is the most free tread nation on Earth, also the richest, and on a per capita income basis"

Because, we had high tariffs while we grew our economy, then we blew away our major competitor's industries in WWII, and the most populous countries in the world (china and india) were encumbered by controlling political hack governments and philosophies.

Now, we have torn down our tarriff barriers, our competition has rebuilt (with our help), the Chinese and Indians have thrown off most of their yokes and we have exported our hard won/earned technology and means of production to those countries, with extremely low wages, high populations, and low costs.

The world has changed. It's time for all you free-traitors to recognize that.

[Texasforever]

My home burnt to the ground in the time it took the fire dept to come from 9 miles out.

You have been pointing this out incessantly since last night. You said you could not afford insurance for your home. Now given the other personal details you have shared about yourself it does not lead me to believe you owned this home free and clear. If you had a mortgage how did you manage to keep the mortgage company from foreclosing due to lack of insurance?

[Fledermaus]

Don't confuse them with facts.

[Texasforever]

What better tariff than a weak dollar?

[XBob]

82 - "What planet are you from? An honest judiciary in India."

I have a few stories of my personal shakedowns in India and in other countries over there.

[Texasforever]

Don't confuse them with facts.

Or ruin a good story.

[Torie]

The US has had a free trade regime ever since WW II, and during that time, its per capita income has increased very smartly indeed. So that is not a new variable. What is the real new variable for you? Let me guess. You are really just frightened about the competition emerging from the Indians and the Chinese aren't you? You wanted to keep them barefoot and in the kitchen didn't you? Let me help you with some of this. Over time, the Indians and the Chinese getting shoes and out of the kitchen will benefit not only US, but even more the planet, not only economically, but otherwise.

[XBob]

bttt - 85"Bottom line - Bush fixes this or he's a one term president. "

[Texasforever]

You should count yourselves lucky right now that nobody has yet pressed a class action lawsuite against all of you for violation of equal protection and demanding restitution.

LOL. Ok what are the "equal protection" grounds for this class action lawsuit?

[XBob]

This is a bit off topic, but in reference to free trade, indian pay, and economic, and rich vs. poor, they just had a short screed on TV news about the world's most expensive house, on London's Billionaire's Row, just sold for $128 million, to an Indian steel tycoon.

The beginning of things to come, buying up our assets.

[XBob]

93 - "Government unemployment numbers are garbage. Where exactly did these 300k people come from who were "not unemployed" in February, but materialized in March to suck up all the newly created jobs, keeping the unemployment rate level"

Well, the census department says we now have a net increase of one more person in this country every 8 seconds, or about 217,000 per month. This includes accounting for deaths, births, and immigration.

So, this could account for part of it.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Roberts is NO leftist, as you can see from the credits.

So,I voted for Buchanan in 1992. I see Roberts has followed Pat off the same cliff.

I love you guys whining about the mean,evil money grubbing companies. Poor Havoc, life's not fair. And then threatening to beat up those who don't agree with him. Boo hoo.

Asking the government to protect you from the corporations is like Poland asking the Soviets to protect them from the Nazi's.

What you need to do is get the corporations on your side.

I'd have no problem with something like this: 0% corporate taxes on goods and services produced right here in the good old U.S.A. with good old American (citizen) workers.

Keep the current (35% I think) tax on profits on goods produced by those evil foreign workers. Close the borders and reduce the number of illegals already here by reducing/eliminating government benefits they receive and enforcing laws already on the books.

Oh, yeah, reduce regulations and pass tort reform too.

What do you say ninenot? Then Havoc can stop threatening everyone with his union thugs.

[Colorado Buckeye]

There is another major problem - Bush and the rest of our government politicians and economists haven't figured out that this is a problem, yet, and they are continuing to exascrbate it with their idiotic policies of of out of touch economists.

Actually, our political class has figured out that there is a problem. The key manifestation of the problem is the large and rising trade imbalance. The folks in charge have decided that the problem is monetary in nature and so, naturally, we will have a monetary solution.

The Fed is printing money and we are now in a currency war with much of the world, especially the Asian countries. The dollar will be devalued to solve the problem. Greenspan thinks that this will all happen benignly; I think that he's wrong.

[XBob]

104 - This 'strengthening' economy sure isn't here. We have 9 1/2 % unemployment here and every week more layoffs are announced at the many petro-chemical plants here in the area. 50, 100, 250 - every week.

[XBob]

103- "It's a house of cards" good points

[dimk]

Well I dont own any property atm, but thinking about buying house next year. I am only few years out of university.

I do contract work by customizing software for the needs of specific companies. The stuff I work with is software used in handling manufacturing and engeneering processes by companies such as Pratt and Whitney, Ford etc. I am a small time contractor so far but I can see the room for development. Main system was created in US and now used around the world. But I also try and watch any new developmets in computer industry, have to keep the edge sharp or be out of contracts very fast.

We(me and people who I know who work on simillar projects) have to compete with few Indian companies that do simillar job. Truth is over last couple years we raised out standards of what we deliver to the customers(we work now faster and we deliver ON TIME). On two projects we made a killing after US company who betted on lower cost Indians had to call us in to fix the horrible failure that those guys created.

Basic math works like that. You can hire dozen indian coders(some work from India some are on site in US) or you can hire 1 top level American or Canadian contractor plus 2-3 junior North american contractors(I fall in this category). Depending on the project one or the other maybe more efficient. North Americans tend to get more original/harder projects while Indians cover the volume. Also North American contractors are commonly called in to fix up the mess created by Indians. Then there are east europeans, they do great job but most want to imigrate to US or Canada anyway :) If not they provide somewhat of a middle ground. In softare industry it is often better to pay one guy who REALLY knows what he is doing $180 usd/hour and be sure the project get done, then get 10 guys for $10 usd/hour each and hope for a good luck. Difference in productivity between different people is huge.

[XBob]

112 - "Myself, with careful planning, about a 38% of what I earn and make from investments, goes to the public weal. "

What do you pay in taxes on what you earn - earned income - not from investments?

And don't forget to include 15.3% for social security/medicair, state and local income taxes, property tax, telephone tax, unemployment, and other taxes which are paid for you by your employer.

[XBob]

112 - "Myself, with careful planning, about a 38% of what I earn and make from investments, goes to the public weal. "

What do you pay in taxes on what you earn - earned income - not from investments?

And don't forget to include 15.3% for social security/medicair, state and local income taxes, property tax, telephone tax, unemployment, and other taxes which are paid for you by your employer.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Indiana largely votes republican on national level and democrat locally. They're my neighbors and friends even if they're from another party. And I have a lot of family in that bunch. I dared them to spit their tripe before a room of 10,000 UAW workers

Hey, wait a minute. You said: I'm not one of those seminar caller types nor a Democrat pretending at being a republican to subvert the party faithful in dishonest fashion because their ideas aren't popular enough to win them anything. No, I'm a life-long republican who cherishes the memory of Ronald Reagan and who thought highly of you right up to the time you sunk a knife in my back economically.

even if they're from another party. And I have a lot of family in that bunch.

You have family in that bunch (of Republicans) who should be afraid to spit their (free trade) tripe to a bunch of UAW workers?

Now it all makes sense, you're a democrat and a liar.

[Texasforever]

There is a fairly large contingent of AFL/CIO types that are pushing this agenda around here. It is fairly typical at election time.