West Virginia governor angry over Abercrombie T-shirt that spoofs state

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 3.23.04

[AmericanInTokyo]

Thank you for capitalizing the "J" in "Jesus".

[MineralMan]

"Thank you for capitalizing the "J" in "Jesus"."

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I always capitalize the first letter of a proper noun. People's names are proper nouns and are capitalized.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Your certainly welcome.

And thank you again for also offering a statement in your #35 (via a simple declarative) that you do not dispute that Jesus in fact existed.

This is progress.

[MineralMan]

"And thank you again for also offering a statement in your #35 (via a simple declarative) that you do not dispute that Jesus in fact existed."

Well, I don't think there's much doubt that a man named Jesus (actually Joshua or something like that) lived and was executed by the Romans around 2000 years ago.

There were lots of folks then who were in opposition to the Romans and to the hierarchy of Judaism at the time. That one of them served as a symbol for the beginnings of a new religious group is not surprising, either.

As to the deity of this man, I must reject that for my own understanding, since I do not believe that any deities or other supernatural entities exist.

Christianity is a fact. It exists. That is enough.

[AmericanInTokyo]

And he must have indeed been a madman, don't you agree?

Calling himself the "Son of God" and such, on a number of occasions, and nearly kicking off food riots at places where large crowds gathered to see him.

Since he existed (agreed), he would a) either have been a madman because of the outrageous claims he himself made about himself, or b) he was in fact the Son of God Himself. Correct? Can't see anything logical outside of these two possibilities.

[MineralMan]

"And he must have indeed been a madman, don't you agree?
Calling himself the "Son of God" and such, on a number of occasions, and nearly kicking off food riots at places where large crowds gathered to see him.

Since he existed (agreed), he would a) either have been a madman because of the outrageous claims he himself made about himself, or b) he was in fact the Son of God Himself. Correct? Can't see anything logical outside of these two possibilities."

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Interesting question. To start, you say that Jesus said he was the "Son of God." That's problematical, actually, since the only record of that is in the scriptures of the Christian religion, none of which were written by anyone who was there, by the best estimates of historians.

Did he say that? I don't know, to tell you the truth.

My personal guess is that he was a bit of a rabble-rouser who drew too much attention to himself and got himself executed by the powers-that-be.

Much like other historical cult heroes, a posthumous following developed, with stories told and retold and altered as such stories often are.

Early Christianity is rife with writings, most of which were rejected as the Canon of the New Testament developed. How much redaction was done in the period from around 300-500 AD is unknown, to be quite frank.

There are lots of theories about Jesus. The ones that disagree with the official Canon are called heretical, even when supported in some way by non-canonical documents. Although heretics are no longer executed, they certainly were in the early days of the "official" Christian church, and all documents relating to those heresies were either destroyed or stuffed away in dark archives.

So, I don't know whether your Jesus claimed to be a deity. I do know that the official Canon of the New Testament claims that. It seems a good idea as a claim, if the goal was, as it was in the days of Constantine, to make Christianity the official religion of Rome and of the world, by extension of an empire.

So, to answer your specific question: Yes, if Jesus did actually claim (and believe) himself to be a deity, then he was insane. However, I doubt that story. I suspect that others who came later gave him that attribute.

Again, whatever you believe is what you believe. I cannot believe in deities or other supernatural entities. More power to you if you can.

[AmericanInTokyo]

I am curious, have you ever read or pondered "Evidence That Demands a Verdict?"

[VadeRetro]

Then there's this post which came to me on another thread but which works well for this one.

[MineralMan]

"I am curious, have you ever read or pondered "Evidence That Demands a Verdict?"

I have. Like most books of its nature, it is a one-sided look at the questions, with a distinct Christian viewpoint. I've also read a lot of other books on these subjects.

One book does not answer the questions. To come to an understanding of how Christianity came to be, one must do a great deal of reading, and not just reading of books written with the idea of selling Christianity as the one true religion.

If you are happy with your beliefs, then we have no argument. I do not presume to tell you what you should or should not believe. All I can do is tell you that I do not.

Best wishes to you.

[mountaineer]

Previously posted thread.

[Ms. W.V]

i am from West Virginia, and i could not be more proud!! You think that youguys are funny or something but really your childish comments prove that you have no lives, or nothing better to do. So if making fun of a state that most of you have probably never been to, is all you have to do then that is sad... but the shirt is stupid nontheless, but not something for wv people to be upset over, however reading all the stupid little comments that people like yourselves make about the state is quite funny, if you need something to make fun of, look in the mirror!!!!! lol

[general_re]

Laugh. It's funny. Trust me - you'll live longer if you don't take yourself so seriously, I promise ;)

[Ms. W.V]

i think that you are a very strange person whith strange ideas! however im sure that it is just an act to make you look cool or something, so i understand! And as far as having fun goes or taking it easy, you have not partied until you have partied in the west virginia mountains! there are so many beautiful thing to see! oh, one more thing, as far as making fun of West Virginia's education, i have a four year bachelors degreee in Aeronautical Science, Aviation...and you know what that means! i may be flying some of you someday! also i am still in college (in West Virginia) working on my Masters and then on to my P.h.d, so just a little background on someone from W.V.