(NY) Hunter's Shot in Dark Finds Unlikely Prey (Wolf Alert)

The Times Union ^

[ZULU]

“When wolves and dogs intermingle, if wolves can get to the dog, the dog is going to take the short end of the stick,” Nelson said."

It depends on the dog. Collies and shelties aren't wolfdogs and if I lived in wolf country I'd invest in some Anatolian Sheepdogs, or Irish wolfhounds, or Komondors, or
Marememmas (Spelling? -Italian sheepdog used to protect flocks from wolves), etc. and law or no law, I'd shoot anything that threatned my dogs, stock or family.

I think the wolf threat is overblown and that bears are a far greater danger to stock and people.

[DugwayDuke]

"If you don't kwo, I can't explain it to you. I guess your idea of a beautiful place to live is a land full of frams, malls, superhighways, McDonald's and movie theaters with the only wildlife being stray pigeons, geese, a few der and what goes on in the local pub."

If you don't know, then you shouldn't speculate. Actually, my idea of a beautiful place is something at least 50 miles from the nearest mall. Kind of like that "remote area" where these wolves are to be given free run. IOW, in my personal utopia, I'd be living where the city dwellers think it would be "kind a neat" for the wolves to be introduced. I'd be the one who would be facing the deprivations of these wolf packs while you, and those like you, would be basking in the joys of looking at some kind of neat pictures of some kind of neat wolves in some kind of neat remote area.

"Controlled hunting - of the wolves and mainly the deer herds which support them."

In practical terms, there is no such thing as "controlled hunting" of an endangered species. BTW, I spend a lot of time hunting deer.

"If thye reached the point where they were in everybody's back yard, they would be endangered would they?"

So, as long as the wolves aren't in your backyard, they're kind of neat?

[ZULU]

I guess its time for a controlled hunt of wolves in Wisconsin.

"A black bear may get into your bird feeder ...."

A black bear will get into more than your bird feeder. A hungry wolf pack isn't going to come through your back door for a meal. A 600 lb. black bear can and will. And a black beare can and will kill livestock, pets and people for a meal. There have been no authenticated kills of Human beings by wolves in North America by wolves - ever. Lots of human kills and human meals by black bears adn cougars though.

[ZULU]

"I did see the after effects of a wolf"s" attack on a BIG dog."

Probably the wrong kind of dog. Old world herders have used Anatolian Shepherds, Kmomondors, Irish Wolfhounds, etc. to protect their herds from wolves and bears roight up to the present.

If there is serious problem with wolves in any area, they by all means they should be controlled by hunts. But I believe the threat to human life is overblown. No wolf around can win a fight with a bullet, and there have been no authenticated human kills by wolf packs in North America, which admittedly is NOT the case with bears and cougars.

I don't advocate wolf packs in densely settled areas - jsut remote unsettled areas in the east, which still do exist, believe it or not.

[ZULU]

"As long a you are not one of the people in that remoter part of the east coast. Our ancestors of a couple generations back hunted and killed the things for a reason."
Yes, they equated the North American wolf with Eurpean wolves which have been known to kil and eat people in Europe. and by the way, people in Europe and wolves do manage to live relatively amicably together in some remote areas there still.
A wolf pack in my backyard would worry me less than a black bear in my backyard.

No wolves, aren't domestic dogs, but they canbe domesticated, a bunch of primitive Homo sapiens did just that several thousand years ago, which is why you have that dog in your house.

[ZULU]

SHEESE!!!
I said I wouldn't like to shoot a wolf or coyote, they look too much like dogs. I like dogs and I stand by my statement.
But if I had to shoot anything to protect myself, my family, my pets or stock or anyone else's I would.

There ARE areas in the east which are sufficiently remote that could support a wolf pack. If I lived in one of those areas, I would not try to raise livestock there, I'd keep the right kind of dog, or not let it run loose without myself and rifle around, and I'd just enjoy having them there.

[muawiyah]

"human-wolf interaction"? That sounds like the expression "sexually active" in that it could mean whatever you wish depending on your debating opponent's position.

Thank goodness we have not yet gotten to "human-wolf sexually active interaction", although this will undoubtedly involve a case before the Massachusetts supreme court.

[muawiyah]

If you review the thread you will notice I never advocated shooting dogs willy-nilly. BTW, there are very few places in Europe outside of zoos where humans ever encounter wolves.

[ZULU]

What was your collie pup doing outside unattended?

Collies aren't designed to protect sheep, just herd them.

Get a Komondor or Anatolian Sheepdog - they are guard dogs designed to drive off wolves.

If anything tried to attack one of my dogs, I'd shoot it, but i'd have enough brains not to let my dogs, especiallya pup run about alone.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

Shoot, shovel, and shut up. The last thing rural people need is to fear for their children because of a predator forced on them by a bunch of invasive, hypocritical urban liberals.

[ZULU]

Lepton, you are the ONLY person here to really get the picture.

[ZULU]

But thye still DO exist there and Europe is ar more densely populated than the U.S. We exterminated all wolves here several generations ago - a rather extreme measure in my book.

[ZULU]

"If you don't know, then you shouldn't speculate. "

So in what kind of area do YOU live Dugway Duke - don't give me the exact place, just a kind of description - rural, suburban, etc. I live in a fairly remote are in the east, just the kind of place wher wolf packs would be suitable. I have had some minor problems with coyotes and some major problems with black bears, but I have rifles and know hwo to use them, don't try to raise livestock in a forested mountainous area, don't keep city type dogs and don't let them run loose without me being around.

The nearest mall is some distance away, but still close for my comfort, but, hey, I can't control "progress", unfortuantely.

"In practical terms, there is no such thing as "controlled hunting" of an endangered species"

In practical terms if a species is endangered, there aren't enough of them around to pose a serious problem.

"So, as long as the wolves aren't in your backyard, they're kind of neat?"

No, I have no problem with wolves in MY backyard, but then my "backyard" is kind of big, forested, mountainous and has no dumb smelly sheep on it. If it did, I'd get an appropriate kind of guard dog and shoot problem wolves.

[muawiyah]

Take a look at the thread where the guy says "wolf-human interactons".

This was in response to my post about wolves not being known for killing people in North America. However, the evidence advanced concerned wolves supposedly killing domesticated livestock.

The only "wolf-human interaction" at issue in that person's mind was an economic one, not a situation where a wolf might attack and kill a human being.

I would imagine that the guys who raise sheep are even more extreme even though intense interbreeding has rendered their animals too stupid to run away from the wolves.

I have noticed on similar threads that we never hear from the sheep people ~ must be a reason for that.

[Vinnie]

t would surprise me if they did not attack humans.

I believe the word Documented was left out.

I'm no expert on the subject but have read that documenting the actual way someone died is part of the problem.

Let's say several hunters come upon a partially eaten body. How is it going to be determined whether he/she was killed by wolves or killed by something else and merely eaten by passing wolves.
I'm with you, how could the 2 sub-species be that different.

Feral dogs are supposed to be extremely dangerous, as they don't fear humans. If wolves see that they can run anywhere without fear of reprisal, they will become a major menace.
This is already happening with mountain lions .

[Dustbunny]

Wow, this is great. I hope they migrate back into Penna I would love to look out the back and see one.

[FreedomPoster]

>>Nelson said lethal control is not used when pets are killed.

I suggest Jon Robinett shoot, shovel, and shut up.

[Dustbunny]

It is my understanding that wolves travel in 'packs'. They are also reclusive so it is possible their are more.

[Dustbunny]

We have thought for years that they planted wolves and cougars in the 'wilderness' areas in the northern parts of Penna. Certainly do know they tranfer trouble black bears from the Poconos to our area.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

SHEESE!!!

I feel sort of bad, because, when I posted my comments, I didn't realize half the thread was going, or had started, to pile on you.

That being said, I make take issue with your "sufficiently remote" part of the east comment.

Even the remote parts of the east usually have at least some people, none of whom want their dogs, even "the right kind of dogs," attacked by a wolf pack.

Basically, if you like dogs, and I do, you shouldn't embrace wolves or coyotes being any where near them.