Randall Terry Says Islam is Religion of the Sword from Its Conception until Today

releases.usnewswire.com ^

[ZULU]

"Gee, I seem to recall the Muslim (OK, Turks) laying siege to Vienna in 1683.."

Correct, see my post.

[ZULU]

I never heard of this guy.

But you can gather from my post, my opinion of Islam is not very high. I consider Islam a continuing, standing threat ot western civlization and liberal (in the classical sense of that term) thinking. I know Muslims condone the use of force to convert non-believers to this day and the Islamic terrorists have as one of their goals, the recreation of the Islamic Reich which extended into all of Iberia, southern France, southern Italy, Sicily, the Mediterranean Islands and the Balkans.

[antiRepublicrat]

The Muslims were not driven out of Spain until 1492.

As I said, by the time of the first Crusade, the Muslims only had a foothold on southern Spain.

The Ottomans in the 1400's invaded the Balkans, conquered and enslaved the Christian population of Constantinople, and sent armies of conquest as far as Vienna which they actually besieged.

I didn't include the Ottomans because I was referring to the original religious expansion. By the time of the Ottomans, it was a political turf war, just as the Christians were doing within their own territories to themselves.

Islam is STILL enslaving black Christians and Animists in Subsaharan Africa, and trying to expand its lnfluence by force into the Indian subcontinent and western Europe.

You really need to account for the time difference. Christianity has had 600+ more years to mature than has Islam. Up to only a couple hundred years ago Christians were expanding their influence and enslaving populations around the world. In some cases, they enslaved and exploited populations that had before been turned Muslim through peaceful trade and communication and had become very rich. In one such example, they even burned the peasants' crops in Java to keep prices up in Europe.

Islam had better speed up their maturity pretty quick to keep pace with Christianity before we get too pissed off and just eradicate them.

[antiRepublicrat]

Wahhabist

Say no more. If not for Muhammad Bin Saud, Sheikh Wahhab would have been silenced by the other Muslim schools at the time. The Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali, and Shafi'i all thought his ideas on the Quran were pretty contradictory to what was actually in the Quran. They were about to prosecute him until Saud gave him protection.

It's pretty sad that the British handed the oil riches and the holy sites of Mecca and Medina to this bunch of fanatical gangsters (and therefore a lot of power), all in an effort to fight the Ottoman empire.

[antiRepublicrat]

I never heard of this guy.

Outspoken former head of Operation Rescue, sayer of the quote "...just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good ..." and advocate of murder for a supported cause.

[Aquinasfan]

The Crusades were a reaction to an invasion and defensive in nature. Yes, there were horrific events perpetrated by both sides but the cause and effect need to be put into perspective. It would be like trying to understand the American-Japanese conflict in WWII by only reading about the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Bump!

[ZULU]

"The Muslims were not driven out of Spain until 1492.

As I said, by the time of the first Crusade, the Muslims only had a foothold on southern Spain."

The first Crusade was in the 1000's. The Muslims were not driven from Granada until 1492. I don't think they only had a foothold in southern Spain in the 1000's. At that time, the Reconquista was just starting.

"I didn't include the Ottomans because I was referring to the original religious expansion. By the time of the Ottomans, it was a political turf war, just as the Christians were doing within their own territories to themselves."

Sort of a turf war, but I don't think the Christians whose young sons were rounded up under the "boy tax" to provide Janissaries or whose daughters were rounded up as sex slaves for the Sublime Porte and his minions would have viewed it that way. Also, I believe the Muslim Tatars were still controlling things in Ukraine and large parts of Russia, raiding, plundering, enslaving and levying tribute, at least as late as the 1300's.

"You really need to account for the time difference. Christianity has had 600+ more years to mature than has Islam."

That's an explanation not an excuse. The Saudis "officially" ended slavery only in the 1960s.
I think their is a theological difference in the view of slavery between Christianity and Islam. While you can certainly condemn the actions of Christians who enslaved others, what they were doing was in no way condoned or encouraged by their basic theological tenets - the Bible. In Islam, on the other hand, the Koran and Haddiths approve of slavery, condone and encourage it, when the enslaved are non-Muslims. Besides, as you point out you have to judge a people by the time and the 1400's and 1500's were pretty brutal by anyone's view. True, Islam is a belief system 600 years younger than Christianity, but I think their views about people and social realtionships have more to do with their belief system than the age. Look at the Japanese. They pulled themselves fully forward into the 20th Century, or the Taiwanese, or the Hong Kong Chinese, or the Phillipinos.

"Islam had better speed up their maturity pretty quick to keep pace with Christianity before we get too pissed off and just eradicate them."

Considering all that has happened. I wonder what they would have to do really tick us off. Set off a nuclear bomb at the Vatican or in Washington or London? I think Islam has mae it pretty clear that by hook or crook or by force or turing our own legal systems against us, they are determined to convert or eliminate western society. And in doing so, they are true to the word of their prophet.

[ZULU]

"Say no more. If not for Muhammad Bin Saud, Sheikh Wahhab would have been silenced by the other Muslim schools at the time. The Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali, and Shafi'i all thought his ideas on the Quran were pretty contradictory to what was actually in the Quran. They were about to prosecute him until Saud gave him protection."

What you are saying is true. But Wahhab was not an abberation. He had a long series of equally violent and intolerant predecessors and a succession of equally intolerant and violent successors, leading up to the present day and plaging us now.

"It's pretty sad that the British handed the oil riches and the holy sites of Mecca and Medina to this bunch of fanatical gangsters (and therefore a lot of power), all in an effort to fight the Ottoman empire."

The Brits were actually deluded by one of their own agents who became a Muslim and moved to Saudi Arabia. I can't remember the guy's name. I do know that the Saudis switched to the Americans later. I also know that Lawrence of Arabia who knew the Arabians better than most, did not like, trust or support the Wahhabis who later massacred thousands, possibly millions, of non-Wahhabist Muslims.

And MOST of the Mosques and Madrassehs in the U.S. and western Europe are funded and staffed by Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia.

[ZULU]

Never heard of "Operation Rescue" either.

Sounds like this guy needs a turban, scimitar and beard and would fit in quite well with the Wahhabis.

[antiRepublicrat]

Never heard of "Operation Rescue" either.

It's the leading activist Christian anti-abortion/pro-life group.

[Aquinasfan]

those populations were considered heretics for their beliefs and under threat of death by the Catholic Church.

Until 1054, all Christians were Catholics. Augustine was the bishop of Carthage, for example.

[rimtop56]

Your description of Randall Terry's beliefs about violence is totally inaccurate.

Randall Terry advocates peaceful protests and is totally against killing even abortionists. I've heard him speak, seen him on tape, and read his writings. Operation Rescue is and was totally committed to nonviolent resistance to abortion.

[antiRepublicrat]

But Wahhab was not an abberation. He had a long series of equally violent and intolerant predecessors and a succession of equally intolerant and violent successors,

Not a good thing, but no worse than Christians in their dark ages.

I can't remember the guy's name.

That would be Harry St. John Philby. But it's Percy Cox who drew the line on the map giving Saud the wealth used to spread this particularly nasty and intolerant brand of Islam.

[antiRepublicrat]

Randall Terry advocates peaceful protests and is totally against killing even abortionists.

Terry loves hate, suggesting to accept it. Terry also said the doctors had it coming and would not condemn the actions of the killers. It was his words that inspired one of the killers. I guess you don't deny his other gross moral shortcomings.

Operation Rescue is and was totally committed to nonviolent resistance to abortion.

*Is* since they kicked him out, which was a good move on their part.

[ZULU]

Harry St. John Philby

GREAT!!

You have a good memory.

[Saundra Duffy]

Randall Terry is one of my heroes.

[antiRepublicrat]

Until 1054, all Christians were Catholics. Augustine was the bishop of Carthage, for example.

I'm switching churches here (depending on definitions), but the Egyptian Copts lived under political and religious persecution by the Orthodox church up until Islam arrived in 640. Many welcomed the Muslims and did pretty well under them (many of the oppressive Dhimmi laws you hear about weren't actually enforced).

[antiRepublicrat]

You have a good memory.

I remembered the "John Philby" part, but had to look up the full name. I did a lot of Muslim study in school because 1) wondering why all the trouble with Muslims, 2) needed to get some elective and history credits and 3) cool teacher for the classes -- an old grumpy conservative, but a nice relief from the leftist/hippy professors.

[Aquinasfan]

I'm switching churches here (depending on definitions), but the Egyptian Copts lived under political and religious persecution by the Orthodox church up until Islam arrived in 640.

You're basically right. I wasn't aware of this history, but it's very interesting.

Importantly, the factions were competing Catholic Rites, the Melkite and Alexandrian Rites, with the politics of the Roman empire and the Mohammedan invasion thrown in for good measure.

[antiRepublicrat]

Importantly, the factions were competing Catholic Rites, the Melkite and Alexandrian Rites, with the politics of the Roman empire and the Mohammedan invasion thrown in for good measure.

Not a fun time and place to be, huh? Now if only the modern Muslims would get their act together and realize what year it is, the world might be a pretty nice place for a change.