Welcome to the Titanic;The west is falling apart after Europe's 9/11

Guardian ^ | 03/18/04 | Timothy Garton Ash

[Land_of_Lincoln_John]

Wow, even the Guardian is calling the Spaniards surrender monkeys. Thank God for Britain.

[expatpat]

The first part is mostly OK, but then it's the usual Guardian garbage, such as this gem:

How can we make Muslims feel more at home in Europe.....

[Shermy]

How do we integrate such Muslim immigrants into our societies?

First, ask such immigrants if they want to.

[Codeflier]

I say this deserves a BARF Alert. I lost interest with this statement:

Blair was wrong to take us to war on Iraq

[McGavin999]

I don't think I have ever read such muddled thinking.

[AZLiberty]

We have at least 12 million Muslims in the European Union already. The vast majority of them are peaceful, law-abiding citizens, horrified by such acts, but a significant minority are also impoverished, unemployed, alienated.

There are impoverished, unemployed, alienated Europeans living in Europe, but they don't go around blowing up trains. They collect their welfare checks, drink their beer, and mind their own business.

To unhappy Moroccans and Indians in Europe: Just go home!

[Savage Beast]

"How can we make Muslims feel more at home in Europe...?"

They already feel very much at home, thank you. That's not the problem.

"We have at least 12 million Muslims in the European Union already."

Yes. You obviously do not understand the problem, Timothy.

[Brilliant]

"Rightwing American commentators charge Spanish voters with "appeasement". This is crass... Every single Spanish voter was a soldier in the "war on terror". They voted different ways for all sorts of reasons... Many swing voters punished the conservative government of José María Aznar for initially attributing the attacks to the Basque terrorist organisation Eta. And, yes, some emotionally blamed him for having made Spain a more likely terrorist target by supporting Bush's war on Iraq. But to say that this vote adds up to "appeasement" is a stupid slur.

Would have to agree that it's wrong. It's not so much like "appeasement" as it is like cowardice: These "soldiers in the war on terror turned tail and ran in the face of danger.

[glasseye]

and the French midshipman is admiring himself in the mirror

well, he's dead on target here...

[Unicorn]

This guy is a bozo.

[Starve The Beast]

...but on November 5 Europe should be on the telephone to the president-elect - whether he's called Kerry or Bush - saying with one voice: that's what you have to do next.

Say what?? What the heck do you mean, "that's what you have to do next"? Hey, guys, something just occurred to me... how about you lifting a finger on this one? I realize that impotent, bankrupt Old Europe is just plain tuckered out from all that snippy complaining from the sidelines, but if you expect the US to pull the load, howzabout you butt out and let the grownups handle it?

[RWR8189]

What changes should we all accept? I think, for example, that we should now have identity cards, to be carried at all times. And what kind of limitations to civil liberties should we never accept? Answer: Guantánamo, or any European equivalents.

This sure makes a lot of sense

I finally understand the European response to terrorism

Don't offend the terrorists, but make sure you know where everyone else's papers are, where they're going, and what there business is there.

[Starve The Beast]

"Rightwing American commentators charge Spanish voters with "appeasement". This is crass... But to say that this vote adds up to "appeasement" is a stupid slur....

...Like the Bourbons, we have forgotten nothing and learned nothing.

Well, see, there's your problem right there. As long as the European Left can't face the fact that what happened in Spain was naked appeasement - as long as they keep trying to spin it into something less embarrassing for them - that line about the Bourbons is going to continue to be true.

[Centurion2000]

As a result, Americans are again denouncing lily-livered Europeans

If the show fits ...

[Centurion2000]

Oops ... If the shoe fits ....

[bethelgrad]

Let Europe fall. It hasn't really been the "West" in a long time. We are the men of the West, and we will not fall. We are an armed citizenry and will not appease Arab bastards who want to kill us regardless of who is in the White House.

[tpaine]

A year after we invaded Iraq, we may wish we had not. Even if a sober analysis suggests that the Bush administration would probably have done it anyway, we may blame Blair for so enthusiastically going along. But now we're there, it would be criminal, self-lacerating folly for anyone to wish that the democratic reconstruction of Iraq should fail.

We Europeans have an even more vital interest in that than the Americans do.

These are just a few of the things we
should be talking about. But we're not.

They say the band carried on playing as the Titanic went down. Well, we're not holed yet; we've just been brushed by a small iceberg. But the look-outs and the crew are all staring at the bridge, where the Spanish first lieutenant is having a stand-up row with his British mate, the Italian cook is badmouthing the American engineer, and the French midshipman is admiring himself in the mirror, while much larger icebergs loom ahead.

timothy.garton.ash @guardian.co.uk

______________________________________


Wise words.

The important thing 'we' [our socalled leaders] must get across to the Muslims is:

-- Anyone that supports terrorism will be treated as a combatant. -- And, -- that national borders will not be a refuge.
Total war has never been waged before against individuals.. - It is time to start, -- against these terrorists.

-- They must be individually identified, listed, and anyone close to them considered to be fair game.
To be sure, mistakes will be made..
--- BFD, - we all know war is hell.

And this one won't end until the Muslim fanatics are dead.

[Enduring Freedom]

There is no confusion.

History records that Japan and Germany fell when their ENTIRE culture was made to pay for their murderous rampages.

And not a moment before.

The bombings of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki were like a cultural exorcism.

And it worked.

How do you think you will stop these vermin from breeding generation after generation of anti-American terrorists except by sending the biggest wake-up call in history?

Bush is eliminating one-by-one the nations that harbor, aid and abet terrorism.

First, Afghanistan. Then, Iraq.

The WMD justification in no way trumps the need to rid the world of radical Islamic nations to keep the West free.

[Cicero]

This guy is very, very confused.