How Kerry Quit Veterans Group Amid Dark Plot

NY Sun ^ | 3/12/04 | THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB

[Hon]

"I have to wonder how many of the real veterans in this group were suffering from PTSD."

Kerry's group, the VVAW, INVENTED the concept of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's one of their proudest achievements.

(I'm not kidding.)

[cyncooper]

It is impossible to believe that Kerry did not hear about this. Removing my tinfoil hat for a moment, it is reasonable to believe that those involved considered this a moment of blowing off steam, and that no actual plans were ever made.

I can agree with you.

As far as this story stands, I have two areas that I would like addressed:

Kerry denies being at the meeting, yet two people say he was there. Which is it?

Scott Camil does stand by the assassination plan that evidently was his brainchild. Considering from the best perspective that he might just have been considered by the group as someone full of hot air and wasn't really taken seriously, then why, oh why, would the Kerry campaign contact HIM?

[Mo1]

The Weatherman (who later changed their name to the Weather Underground) DID set off a bomb in the Senate washroom during the night of Feb. 28, 1971.

I didn't know that either ..

It's times like this I wish I was older then 6 yrs old at the time (1971) ... so that I can remember what went on in those days

[Carolinamom]

Re: Hubbard.....I read somewhere that he lives in Alabama.

I learn here for the `1st time that it was KERRY'S idea to throw their medals over the WH fence. The fact that he did not throw his own medals is just another instance of his having it both ways.

Denying that he was even present at that meeting is another lie since there are witnesses to discount his version.

The LIES he has told and is telling keep piling up. His lies are even worse imo than Clinton's, for they concern the safety of this country, past, present, and future.

[Mo1]

oh why, would the Kerry campaign contact HIM?

The question should be .. who exactly contacted this person

There are a few Clinton people working on his campaign

And yes .. I do have my tin hat out and ready

[Hon]

Kerry's Mentor: Black Panther And Phony Vietnam Vet, Al Hubbard Various | Composite
Kerry was asked yesterday about Hubbard and when he ended his friendship with him

Kerry said that he has had no contact with Hubbard since that week the info about his service came out

+++++++

Where did he deny this? Do you have a source?

The very latest that Kerry would have learned that Hubbard was a fraud was immediately after his Meet The Press appearance alongside Hubbard, which was on April 18, 1971.

He then had the reported "confrontation" with Hubbard, in July 1971. Even then you have to wonder, what took him so long?

[cyncooper]

Mr. Kerry denies being present at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and says he quit the group before the meeting. But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry,who was then 27,was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization.

Mr. Barnes was present as part of the Kansas City host chapter for the 1971 meeting and recounted the incident in a phone interview with The New York Sun this week.

In addition to Mr. Barnes’s recollection placing Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, another Vietnam veteran who attended the meeting, Terry Du-Bose, said that Mr. Kerry was there.

Was he or wasn't he?

Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

[Eva]

I don't doubt that they discovered the existence of the condition, but it is a very real syndrome, not limited to battle situations, and not really a syndrome, more of a mental disorder.

There are an inordinate number of Vietnam Vets living in Whatcom County, Washington, where we live. Many of the migrated here after the war because it is the last outpost of the continental US and very rural (or at least it was). My husband became active in the Vietnam Veterans organization here because of the great need of many of these veterans for help and friendship. I can tell you PTSD is very real.

[thackney]

"Vote from the Rooftops" & "J F'ing K" ping

[Sabertooth]

*It is impossible to believe that Kerry did not hear about this. Removing my tinfoil hat for a moment, it is reasonable to believe that those involved considered this a moment of blowing off steam, and that no actual plans were ever made.

**I can agree with you.

I can't.

No one describes the VVAW's Kansas City meeting as "blowing off steam," they changed locations after learning the original meeting place was bugged, they put the assassination plot up for a vote, and Camill admits to the plot.

[Mo1]

Where did he deny this? Do you have a source?

Kerry was asked the question at yesterday's news briefing ..

Some reporter asked him the question and Kerry said he hasn't seen Hubbard since that week and that he hasn't had any contact with him since then

Actually .. I was surprised that was one of the first questions asked him

[Hon]

"Scott Camil does stand by the assassination plan that evidently was his brainchild. Considering from the best perspective that he might just have been considered by the group as someone full of hot air..."

It is instructive to note that Camil became MORE influential within the VVAW from then on--not less.

[Hon]

"Some reporter asked him the question and Kerry said he hasn't seen Hubbard since that week and that he hasn't had any contact with him since then..."

What week was he talking about, do you know?

[Mo1]

I'm with you, and I DON'T feel that an open inquiry NOW is in any giving ammunition to the left.

After all these years .. one would need A LOT of evidence to even bring up an inquiry about it.

[Sabertooth]

It is instructive to note that Camil became MORE influential within the VVAW from then on--not less.

If Kerry resigned as a result of the Kansas City meeting, as Barnes and DuBose claim, that would create a bit of a leadership void.

[cyncooper]

Good point.

Just trying to bend over backwards to see this in the best light.

It doesn't appear there IS a "best light". Every mitigating factor we come up with seems to be countered by an unpleasant point of fact.

[Mo1]

What week was he talking about, do you know?

OK .. I'm working from memory here

But from what I recall .. Kerry just said that he hadn't had any contact with Hubbard since the week it was reported that he didn't serve in Nam .. that yes Al served in the military proudly .. he never went to Nam

Let me see if I can find a transcript or something from yesterday so that we can be sure

[Hon]

"No one describes the VVAW's Kansas City meeting as "blowing off steam," they changed locations after learning the original meeting place was bugged, they put the assassination plot up for a vote, and Camill admits to the plot."

Absolutely. According to Randy Barnes, everybody knew that the discussion in that hall "was grounds for criminal indictment of conspiracy."

Also remember that Terry Dubose was ASSIGNED to assassinate John Towers (by his own admission). He never said whether they told him not to. Dubose seems to have not done it and quit the VVAW on his own.

[cyncooper]

See? I try to see this in a "he was just a hothead" way, and unsavory facts keep popping up.

[fella]

Isn't there a word that describes the plotting of the overthrow of a legally elected government by force of arms?