You Gotta Love Her - F-ING SMEAR

axis of logic ^ | 3/10/04 | Tom Hayden

[weegee]

In Tour of Duty, the Kerry historian Douglas Brinkley describes the 1971 winter soldier investigation, which Fonda supported and Kerry attended, where Vietnam veterans spilled their guts about "killing gooks for sport, sadistically torturing captured VC by cutting off ears and heads, raping women and burning villages." Brinkley then recounts how Kerry later told Meet the Press that "I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of others," specifically taking responsibility for shooting in free-fire zones, search-and-destroy missions, and burning villages. Brinkley describes these testimonies in tepid and judicious terms, calling them "quite unsettling." By contrast, Brinkley condemns Fonda's 1972 visit to Hanoi as "unconscionable," without feeling any need for further explanation.

Kerry talked to Meet the Press in 1971 and then again 30 years later and backpeddled from some of that testimony:

Kerry speaks about HIS War Crimes

MR. RUSSERT: Thirty years later, you stand by that?

SEN. KERRY: I don't stand by the genocide. I think those were the words of an angry young man. We did not try to do that. But I do stand by the description-I don't even believe there is a purpose served in the word "war criminal." I really don't. But I stand by the rest of what happened over there, Tim.

[weegee]

Why should American atrocities be merely unsettling, but a trip to Hanoi unconscionable?

Actually Tom, both Hanoi Jane and the Ketchup Boy Gigilo are traitors.

Jane Fonda provided aid and comfort to the enemy during wartime by posing for photos on an antiaircraft gun (among other acts).

John Kerry provided and aid comfort by demoralizing the troops with exagerated tales of attrocities. He even testified before Congress. Reportedly some of the "Winter Soldiers" weren't even soldiers at all but lying agitators.

John Kerry could also be an unindicted war criminal. He certainly is unfit to be elected to the highest office in the land.

[weegee]

Imagine a nineteenth-century Jane Fonda visiting the Oglala Sioux in the Black Hills before the battle at Little Big Horn. Imagine her examining Crazy Horse's arrows or climbing upon Sitting Bull's horse. Such behavior by a well-known actress no doubt would have infuriated Gen. George Armstrong Custer, but what would the rest of us feel today?

Imagine a photo of Charles Lindbergh inspecting Hitler's air force taken in 1942-1945.

[Salamander]

She must've gotten tired of justing having a monologue with the thing.

[weegee]

Among the most difficult to contest are claims that antiwar activists persistently spit on returning Vietnam veterans. So universal is the consensus on "spitting" that I once gave up trying to refute it, although I had never heard of a single episode in a decade of antiwar experiences. Then came the startling historical research of a Vietnam veteran named Jerry Lembcke, who demonstrated in The Spitting Image (1998) that not a single case of such abuse had ever been convincingly documented. In fact, Lembcke's search of the local press throughout the Vietnam decade revealed no reports of spitting at all. It was a mythical projection by those who felt "spat-upon," Lembcke concluded, and meant politically to discredit future antiwar activism.

Does he deny that Vietnam War veterans were called "baby killers" as a result of John Kerry's efforts?

[McGavin999]

Boy it's funny to watch these guys try to re-write history. Especially when so many of us remember what ACTUALLY happened.

[weegee]

The Rambo movies not only popularized the spitting image but also the equally incredible claim that hundreds of American soldiers missing in action were being held by the Vietnamese Communists for unspecified purposes. John Kerry's most noted achievement in the Senate was gaining bipartisan support, including that of all the Senate's Vietnam veterans, for a report declaring the MIA legend unfounded, which led to normalized relations. Yet millions of Americans remain captives of this legend.

There are numerous accounts of the North Koreans holding prisoners/hostages for decades. What makes the Vietnamese communists that different? "For unspecified purposes" does not mean that there has to be logic behind the act.

[weegee]

Senator John Kerry supported military action against Saddam Hussein even in the absence of UN approval or approval from France or Russia:

Flashback! Excerpt from Kerry on CrossFire in 1997 (Kerry RIPS into France, et al) (November 12, 1997)

KERRY: Well, John, there's absolutely no statement that they have made or that they will make that will prevent the United States of America and this president or any president from acting in what they believe are the best interests of our country. And obviously it's disappointing. It was disappointing a month ago not to have the French and the Russians understanding that they shouldn't give any signals of weakening on the sanctions and I think those signals would have helped bring about this crisis because they permitted Saddam Hussein to interpret that maybe the moment was right for him to make this challenge.

...

SUNUNU: But isn't what he has seen is a loss of U.S. leadership and an erosion under an administration that has failed to lead?

KERRY: On the contrary. The administration is leading. The administration is making it clear that they don't believe that they even need the U.N. Security Council to sign off on a material breach because the finding of material breach was made by Mr. Butler. So furthermore, I think the United States has always reserved the right and will reserve the right to act in its best interests. And clearly it is not just our best interests, it is in the best interests of the world to make it clear to Saddam Hussein that he's not going to get away with a breach of the '91 agreement that he's got to live up to, which is allowing inspections and dismantling his weapons and allowing us to know that he has dismantled his weapons. That's the price he pays for invading Kuwait and starting a war.

Just how does Tom Hayden define chickenhawk? And why does he co-opt this term from the homosexuals who support NAMBLA?

[weegee]

International Women's Day is a socialist holiday and has been for most of the 20th century.

Still a commie, eh Jane?

[Salamander]

In 1969, my [obviously out-of-touch] Dad decided that year's summer vacation would be spent in "the beautiful wilds of Canada".
We packed up my granny and off we went, winding our way up the east coast, finally crossing into Canuckia.
The first night there, we set up our Shasta travel trailer in a nice little campground.
Then...darkness fell.
Out of seemingly nowhere, hundreds of filthy half-naked hippies appeared.
They lit huge bonfires in the campground trashcans and proceeded to conduct what looked like [to an 8 year old kid, anyway] horrifying, frantic maniacal rituals.
We slept not at all, that night.
The campground had no sewer hookups for campers so the public restrooms were the only thing available.
I will never forget my father leading us, his 3 terrified women-folk through that howling chaotic mob when we simply couldn't "hold it" anymore.
I have no idea why they were screaming at *us*.
Because our clean clothes and hair marked us as establishment?
Dad's perpetual "Korean War grunt" haircut?
I don't know.
The daylight did not come too soon.
[great vacation choice, dad!]
The granny I mentioned watched every Bob Hope USO show broadcast, just praying for a glimpse of her 2 sons.
My uncles did make it home all right....mostly.

A year later, on our next vacation to VA Beach, 2 scruffy hippy girls jimmied open the door of a gas station restroom I was in and proceeded to drag me out screaming because they "couldn't wait, maaaan!".
Once again my Dad ran to my rescue and literally threw them off of me.
I hate hippies, too.

[weegee]

It kind of calls his credibility into question, doesn't it.

Not really. Socialists lie. Always. He didn't have any credibility to begin with.

Why don't we get Tom to discuss the phoney photos his beloved North Vietnamese created during that war? There is a whole chapter on this in the book "Making People Disappear: An Amazing Chronicle of Photographic Deception" (Jaubert, A) (bookfinder.com lists a number of copies availble cheap).

[weegee]

Even before the fake was created/posted, we had a newbie troll here denying that the photo with Kerry in the background looked like him.

That troll's account is still active.

[weegee]

Being a traitor, committing treason, committing war crimes. These charges don't carry statutes of limitations. Nazi war criminals are still prosecuted.

Axis Sally was not prosecuted for several years after WWII.

By and large, America wanted to "move on" after Vietnam. Draft dodgers were pardoned, traitors weren't prosecuted (witness Jane Fonda never being sentenced), and major prosecutions of alleged (or admitted) war crimes did not happen.

Just because John Kerry is an unindicted war criminal does not mean that he is suitable for the presidency.

[philetus]

" Just because John Kerry is an unindicted war criminal does not mean that he is suitable for the presidency.'

I don't think he's suitable to be a $hitburner.

[w-pat]

Fonda was indoctrinated by famous Marxist, Prof. Marcuse at San Diego, as was Angela Davis.
I hope everyone remembers it was Kerry and McCain vs. Smith of New Hampshire and Ross Perot who ruled that no POWs were left in Nam, thereby paving the way for "normalizing" relations with the VN butchers. Have read (don't recall where) a member of Kerry's family received a valuable contract with VN soon after.

[ought-six]

Actually, I think he called her a "Jodee f--k!"

[Hon]

Here are two pages of notes from the September 1970 Operation RAW rally, which culminated with John Kerry and Jane Fonda speaking to the crowd from the same stage:

Always remember that Tom Hayden went to Hanoi LONG before Jane Fonda did. (She only went there later with him.)

Hayden was a founder of the Students For A Democratic Society. He prayed for our defeat in Vietnam. He HATES this country. He always has and always will.

He blames America for the fact that he is a short dweeb.

[Hon]

"Does he deny that Vietnam War veterans were called "baby killers" as a result of John Kerry's efforts?"

Apparently the Kerry campaign thinks veterans will flock to vote for them. They are trying a very fresh approach:

[Hon]

The weasel will never change his spots:

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[weegee]

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