Joe Bangert's Testimony Before The Winter Soldiers Investigation [Bangert Is Kerry's Vet Organizer]

This is just the start. I will post more as I come across them.

QUESTION. A couple of people on the panel mentioned brutalities to
women. Is rape and other sexual brutalities to women--brutality
involving the vagina in particular--is that a usual feature of people
on tour in Vietnam?

BANGERT. Yeah, I think that in regards to women in Vietnam, first of
all, you get this feeling sometimes when you're over there that you
don't even think of their sex. This is really disgusting. You don't
even think of them as human beings, they're "gooks." And they're
objects; they're not human, they're objects. The general rule was a
Vietnamese who is dead is confirmed Viet Cong and one who is living is
a Viet Cong suspect. And that's the way it was. Back to this specific
instance where I talk about the disembowelment of the women--I think
the person involved was a freaked out sexist, if that's what you're
trying to get at. I think maybe he had problems. He had to be--he was
in the Army for 20 years.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22joe+bangert%22+group:alt.war.vietnam&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.war.vietnam&safe=off&selm=9enugu08hb%40enews3.newsguy.com&rnum=11

MODERATOR. Any of you gentlemen here on the panel, could you release
any incidents of fragging that you ever heard of or saw?

MODERATOR. Mr. Bangert, you said you had an incident of this.

BANGERT. I guess the majority of us had been in country for about nine
or ten months and this new guy came. The new guy was a lifer. A lifer
was in charge of the mail. He stopped the mail for about three days
because he wanted his troops to shine their shoes or something or
clean up or shave or get a haircut and he stopped the mail. So someone
told him if we don't get mail by noon on a specific day before
midnight, that night you're going to be offered. But since he was hard
and he was in the Korean War, he thought that what happened in the old
Marine Corps is happening in Vietnam, he persisted and the mail wasn't
gotten out and before midnight he was fragged. And the mail did come
through the next day.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22joe+bangert%22+group:alt.war.vietnam&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.war.vietnam&safe=off&selm=9enugu08hb%40enews3.newsguy.com&rnum=11

Joe Bangert has not let these posts to usenet go unchallenged. He has posted replies on some of the threads.

First, however, as a way to establish his bona fides, here is a post from the same email address, which shows we are dealing with the real Joe Bangert:

Passing Time: Memoir of a Vietnam Veteran Against the War
W. D. Ehrhart

Guest Reviews

Write an online review and share your thoughts with other guests.

5 of 9 people found the following review helpful:

Hippy VV mbr VVAW E-6 from PA dumps cold H2O on YKW! July 10, 1998

Reviewer: bai@capecod.net from Hanoi, Viet Nam, Quang Tri and Brewster, MA.(USA) CC

Passing Time's time pasting took only one night! In that time W. D. Ehrhart flashed me back to '70, 68, 69, 71, and the nitexmasarclights of '72, Ho ho ho chi minhnity returns with both laughter and extreme anger! Ah! The ying and yang of it to me who calls Bill and old old dear friend whom I had never availed myself to his insight and wit like I did last night with Passing Time! Five stars *****, but never too soon to be a new motion picture. Of an old e-6 hippy from Perkasie, Pa, who graduated from Swarthmore College and worked at sea like all "Old Salt" gyrenes who went a few places, saw a few things and still live to tell about it in all speldid details from the heart. Perspicatious (if that can be now a new adjective!) jvb

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-5232136-9243865?asin=0899504167

As you can imagine, Joe Bangert's claims before the WSI caught a lot of flak from the veterans who post on the alt.vietnam newsgroup. For the record, I didn't see one person who believed him--or even one who didn't think his claims were laughable, even insane. (Remember, his nickname is "Crazy Joe." And this is the same man who wanted to demolish the Betsy Ross House and pull William Penn off of the Philadelphia city hall.)

Anyway, this is one of Joe Bangert's responses to some of this criticism:

I am the real Joe Bangert...

For the record, I am not haunted by my actions in Viet Nam. Having chucked
my medals over the fence during Operation Dewey Canyon III- my masculinity
does not hinge on dusty old pieces of metal nor colorful ribbons garnered
via tribal headbashing. The Winter Soldier Investigations were timely and
followed the My Lai incident- what happened at My Lai (they the DOD lied)
was not an isolated incident of aberrant behavior. Real veterans were
assembled from many units and time frames to explain to the American people
that what happened at Pinkville was- in a sense- SOP- you can deny it- but
then you would be lying- and this was just as Nixon and his lying sack of
shit administration who was elected to end the war but did NOT have a
secret plan to end the war, but rather expanded the war into the whole
Indochina theatre- 'Dewey Canyon I' operated in Laos in 1969- I was there
in the sky on the ground briefly. Thank God. Then in 1970 Nixon's
'limited incursion' into Cambodia ended in bitter defeat in seeking 'COSVN'
and ended up with South Vietnamese troops (Hackman Vo's people) beheading
Cambodians and eating their livers and hearts! Having been a helicopter
crew member I helped saved countless lives of wounded and transported the
dead and dying to their temporary resting places in the red clay of Quang
Tri and Thua Thien, Laos and Quang Nam.
This was followed by the assassination of American kids at Orangeburg and
Kent State who opposed the fucking war!
Being antiwar was a continuation of saving lives and preventing more killing
and wounding.

I am very proud that I worked tirelessly to undermine the Thieu regime and
help the American people cut off all aid to the Nguyen Van Thieu clique
They were/ and are fucking thieves and fascists. Wasn't it Nguyen Cao Ky
(sun glasses and purple ascot) and a former French Air Force lackey who once
said he greatly admired Adolph Hitler? You may recall that George Herbert
Walker Bush as well as Babs flew into Hanoi to give a speech on behalf of
Citibank (and was rewarded with a million Moonie bucks- was rumored to also
be in the market to buy 1,000,000 M-16's left behind to be used as some sort
of trophy for Viet Nam War buffs- the joke going on then in Thang Long town
was "Who wants to but a million ARVN M-16's- never fired- dropped once!"

I worked tirelessly after the war for reconciliation between our two
peoples and nations. I have no regrets. And yes, unlike you traumatized
hate-filled basket cases and right wing troglodytes I did go back and work
in Viet Nam in my own pursuit of happiness.
What I did is none of your concern. I'm okay with Viet Nam- there the
war is way over, it is here that closure has not occurred. I have many
friends over there as well as here. My friends over there include many
former PAVN soldiers who once fought against me- their friendship is a gift
which I cherish- I don't pretend you are my enemies today- but you sure act
it. Think about this. I'll take them anyDAY over most of you. And that is
a fact.

It is 2001 boys- grow up and get a life- THE WAR IS OVER! IT's ALL OVER!

WAR WHAT WAS IT GOOD FOR? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! '
Biet roi, kho lam, noi mai nhinh thi biet' as they might say to me ovewr a
few cold Halidas or Con Ho's and that is the whole truth.

Now back to your fragging- and self aggrandizing- you all deserve each
other- I will drop in from time to time as is my perogative- and if you
don't like it- well -tough shit then.

I will not respond to your red baiting McCarthyite tactics and ad hominem
arguments.

Look at yourself in the mirror- what do you see? Pathetic nitwits.

There is one lesson I did learn in the 'Nam - some of the best people I
ever met served with me and some of the worst scurrilous scumbags were there
as well, as you so much remind me from time to time-
Well it is time for me to noi tieng Viet Nam so

Tam Biet ya'll- and get a new target tomorrow- and that's the way it is.

G.I. Joe < ;-)

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=S_gU6.229%24OT3.154935%40nntp3.onemain.com&rnum=1

Here is another post from Bangert--he seems to hang out a lot in usenet and elsewhere on the internet:

Your understanding from whom? You are ill informed. Joe Bangert.
Wasn't lying then ain't lying now-so now
Biet roi, kho lam, noi mai, nhinh ti biet!

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=s5XJ6.249%24X4.58072%40nntp2.onemain.com

Bangert never avails himself of the opportunity to actually prove his claims or to refute the claims made against him. He just posts stuff like this.

It's pretty clear he was caught lying quite shamelessly. No wonder he is so important to the Kerry campaign.

Which raises a question about the Winter Soldier Follies: Why didn't anyone ask the question, "What did you do about it? As a matter of fact, that question is conspicuously absent throughout the testimony. Bangert apparently did nothing, and that's just okay by the WS Follies. What do you think?

I think that Bangert is a load of Bravo Sierra.

Needless to say, Bangert is a pot head (which is probably the real reason he likes living in Vietnam so much):

Well Teo, I do not feel safe with my dong in your hands. So go back to
Cambodia- and this time find the real Hanoi Gold, straight from Uncle Ho's
Victory Garden, accept no substitutions. Then on to Ca Mau. mau len,
xich lo man.

+++++++

You mean to tell me it was against the law to smoke con xa in Viet Nam!
Well there were no signs to that effect in Da Nang/Quang Nam Airport when I
arrived.
I liked the Hanoi Gold- it grew well in Quang Tri- what's wrong
with Marijuana, huh?
It brings me to Buddha (for Christ's sake) ! Then I imagine I am Ming
Mang, chasing Francophonies out of Hue in 1800's. Who is carrying my
palaquin- why Teo and Ba Bach Mai and Hytran and Hackman the Xich Lo man.
Try it you'll like it.
Most Viet Kieu youth may well want to attend the great Smoke-In in New
York on May Day. Sponsored by the FLAME FOUNDATION please visit this
site and skip the Memorial Day cry babies in Washington. Bring matches too.
Go to "http://www.millionmarijuanamarch.com/mmm1_1.htm"
Thanks for the PSA spot- Democracy in Action!

YIPPIE-
The Ghost of Jerry Rubin-

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=oilW2.12%24YZ4.2660%40news2.randori.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dbai%2540capecod.net%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3DoilW2.12%2524YZ4.2660%2540news2.randori.com%26rnum%3D4

Bangert's wife:

Victoria Goldsmith (bai@capecod.net) is mom to three children, the oldest a college junior. She is the executive director of Habitat for Humanity of Cape Cod and enjoys playing the flute in the local town band.

http://cornell-magazine.cornell.edu/Archive/Nov2000/Notes70-79.html

BTT

Bangert posted this song, which is the Viet Cong anthem on usenet at alt.vietnam. He seems to spend a LOT of time trolling and harassing the Vietnamese in this country who post there:

DDoa`n qua^n Vie^.t Nam ddi .
Chung lo`ng cu+'u quo^'c .
Bu+o+'c cha^n do^`n vang tre^n ddu+o+`ng ga^.p ghe^`nh xa .
Co+` in ma'u chie^'n tha('ng mang ho^`n nu+o+'c .
Su'ng ngoa`i xa chen khu'c qua^n ha`nh ca .
DDu+o+`ng vinh quang xa^y xa'c qua^n thu` .
Tha('ng gian lao cu`ng nhau la^.p chie^'n khu .
Vi` nha^n da^n chie^'n dda^'u kho^ng ngu+`ng .
Tie^'n mau ra sa tru+o+`ng .
Tie^'n le^n ! Cu`ng tie^'n le^n !
Nu+o+'c non Vie^t Nam ta vu+~ng be^`n .

DDoa`n qua^n Vie^.t Nam ddi ,
Sao va`ng pha^'p pho+'i .
Da('t gio^'ng no`i que^ hu+o+ng qua no+i la^`m than .
Cu`ng chung su+'c pha^'n dda^'u xa^y ddo+`i mo+'i .
DDu+'ng dde^`u le^n go^ng xi'ch ta dda^.p tan .
Tu+` bao la^u ta nuo^'t ca(m ho+`n .
Quye^'t hy sinh ddo+`i ta tu+o+i tha('m ho+n .
Vi` nha^n da^n chie^'n dda^'u kho^ng ngu+`ng .
Tie^'n mau ra sa tru+o+`ng .
Tie^'n le^n ! Cu`ng tie^'n le^n !
Nu+o+'c non Vie^t Nam ta vu+~ng be^`n .

English Translation

Soldiers of Vietnam, we go forward,
With the one will to save our Fatherland.
Our hurried steps are sounding on the long and arduous road.
Our flag, red with the blood of victory, bears the spirit of our country.
The distant rumbling of the guns mingles with our marching song.
The path to glory passes over the bodies of our foes.
Overcoming all hardships, together we build our resistance bases.
Ceaselessly for the people's cause we struggle,
Hastening to the battle-field!
Forward! All together advancing!
Our Vietnam is strong, eternal.

Soldiers of Vietnam, we go forward!
The gold star of our flag in the wind,
Leading our people, our native land, out of misery and suffering.
Let us join our efforts in the fight for the building of a new life.
Let us stand up and break our chains.
For too long have we swallowed our hatred.
Let us keep ready for all sacrifices and our life will be radiant.
Ceaselessly for the people's cause we struggle,
Hastening to the battle-field!
Forward! All together advancing!
Our Vietnam is strong, eternal.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=Buz13.409%249V2.31962%40news2.randori.com

I'm ashamed to say I'm distantly related to this sack of feces.

Well, we can't pick our relatives.

Good work tracking down Bangert's stuff.

Thanks!

Since Bangert is so busy getting out the Vietnam Veteran vote for Kerry, I thought I'd whip up a bumper sticker for him:

(My first foray into graphics. Using pathetic MS Paint.)

You guys really Hate this Joe Bangert Fellow. To bad we Dont know where he lives. >:)

I hate the fact that he was admitted into the MARINE CORP, somebody overlooked this guy ,he in no way acts like any MARINE I know, our MARINES were warriors then and they are warriors now, GOD BLESS THEM ALL.

This guy Bangert seems like a tiger. Be careful, especially if you are a city dweller.