Kerry's View on Israel's Fence: 'Legitimate' or 'Barrier to Peace'? (Flip-Flop)

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 2/26/04 | Patrick Goodenough

[Diogenesis]

ProIsrael comment implies devious Zogby "sauce" is coming.
=======> Watch for proIsrael Kerry to "drop" in an upcoming Zogby(FIXED proIslamic terror) poll.

ZOGBY ERROR ANALYSIS
[CLOSE LOOK AT ZOGBY "SAUCE" DATA ]

==============================
Actual NH Final Jan 27 -John Kerry 84,229 38% 13 Howard Dean 57,788 26%
Zogby NH Primary Tracking Poll Jan 25
Kerry 31% Dean 28% Clark 13% Edwards 12% Lieberman 9%
RESULT: Actual Diff: 12% (Kerry - Dean)

CONCLUSION Zogby Sauce +9% for Arafat support

==============================

Actual IOWA caucus 01/20/04 - Kerry 38, Edwards 32, Dean 18, Gephardt drops out
Zogby IOWA Poll for 01/18/04 - Kerry 24, Dean 23, Gephardt 19, Edwards 18.

CONCLUSION - ZOGBY off by 14% on Kerry ---
Zogby Sauce +14% for Arafat support]

[anniegetyourgun]

I doubt it....because he'll change his position next week.

[FormerACLUmember]

"An unscrupulous man with no moral principles is definable because he has no definability."

[Diogenesis]

It matters not. Zogby will mount his attack NOW.

[samtheman]

I'm a Kerry-hater. I tried to coin the term al-Qerry (which failed to get off the ground). I am a strong conservative and I view al-Qerry as worse than al-Qennedy, worse than the algore. But I have to call it the way I see it and this:

"I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government's decision to build the barrier off of the Green Line -- cutting deep into Palestinian areas," Kerry told the AAI audience in a video link-up.

... does not contradict support for the barrier. When he sympathized with the Pali's over the Israeli government's decision to build the barrier off of the Green Line, that's much different than sympathizing with an argument it is wrong to build the barrier at all.

Sure alQerry emphasized the negative aspect of the fence in front of the Arab audience and doesn't emphasize those negatives in front of the Jewish audience. All pols do that. But in this case, I don't think you can say that he flopped from being against the fence to being for the fence.

I'm for the fence. And I agree with Bush (and alQerry). The Israeli's should carefully consider the route.

alQerry is a life-time flip-flopper and leftist, but I don't think this case can be used as evidence against him.

[SubMareener]

I knew that there was something missing in the Presidency of George W. Bush! We don't have to parse his sentences to try and figure out what he really means! If John Fing Kerry were honest, his slogan would be "Kerry - Parsers of the World, Unite!"

[Arpege92]

"We don't need another barrier to peace, 'he continued'. Provacative and counter productive measures only harm Isreal's security over the long term, increase the hardships to the Palestinian people, and make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder."

Sounds like a flip flop statement to me! You can't tell the Israel's that you fully understand why a wall is built and then turn around and tell the Palestinians that the wall is counter productive.

[samtheman]

There's not that much parsing.

Fence as security tool: good.

Fence as a land-grab tool: bad.

Bush is saying the same thing.

Basically, the idea is we can support Israel (as most of us in FR do), but you can't take the sentence "My country, right or wrong", and substitute "Israel" for "My country"... not if your an American.

Sometimes Israel is wrong, and conservatives, and supporters of Israel have a right to say so.

I'm not even saying Israel is wrong in this case... all I'm saying is that Bush and Kerry are both saying the same thing: "the route should be carefully considered".

And that I agree with them.

Look, the maddening thing about the liberals and the left is that they never concede anything to Bush. Everything bad is all Bush's fault and everything good would have been better but for Bush. Let's not be like them. I don't want to be like them. I don't want to nitpick. To say that Kerry contradicted himself here is nitpicking.

[G.Mason]

They can't get rid of them, even at two for a nickle!

[samtheman]

Sounds like a flip flop statement to me! You can't tell the Israel's that you fully understand why a wall is built and then turn around and tell the Palestinians that the wall is counter productive.

See my previous post.

Again, I hate Kerry as much as anybody here. Man how happy I was back in the days when it looked like Dean was going to win. Remember then? How lovely! It would have been Bush vs. Mad-Dog-Dean! How wonderful! And part of the loveliness and part of the wonderfulness was watching the Kennedy-Klone-Kerry go down in flames.

Oh well, it wasn't meant to be. We're stuck with him for the next few months. Let's just all work hard to make sure it's not the next few years!

I give money to the Bush campaign every month (and I'm not rich).

[Arpege92]

I read your post and that's what I was responding to. I'm with you about nit-picking, but Kerry has definately flipped flopped on this issue IMHO.

[Arpege92]

"I give money to the Bush campaign every month (and I'm not rich)."

I'm not doubting your support for Bush in no way at all. I was only debating your view on Kerry flip flopping on the fence issue. :-}

[alloysteel]

John "F'ing" Kerry is a living example of the effectiveness of nailing Jell-O to the wall. No position is too difficult to simply slip away from. The very term "sheeple" was invented to describe the kind of ardent support that rises around Kerry.

"Bush is bad. I'm not Bush, therefore I am good."

That is about the sum of Kerry's political positions and his strongest argument in favor of his election.

First is the assumption that Bush IS bad. Bald assertion, with no supporting rationale. The true part is, that Kerry is not Bush. The conclusion also assumes there cannot be a number of other ways to be bad, different than what is by conventional wisdom considered to be bad, that every other position is by definition, good.

[OldFriend]

The International Court and the UN, twin debating societies.

[OldFriend]

Zogby will mount his attack and Fox News Channel will give him a forum.

[samtheman]

I know. I was just saying. Hoping others here also send some cash to the campaign.

[atomicpossum]

[prairiebreeze]

The NY Slimes has endorsed Senator I'll-change-my-tune-anytime-to-get-a-vote Kerry. Guess the Slimes understands fickle.....

Prairie

[FormerACLUmember]

John "F'ing" Kerry is a living example of the effectiveness of nailing Jell-O to the wall. No position is too difficult to simply slip away from. The very term "sheeple" was invented to describe the kind of ardent support that rises around Kerry. >/I>

ROTFLMAO bump!