Posted on 02/25/2004 10:53:20 AM PST by ancient_geezer
RIDICULOUS is right, I've prepared tax returns for individuals with over $1,000,000 AGI and had no where near 65 printed pages involved! If you are a "Day Trader" with thousands of trades... maybe (the Schedule D Forms have to account for each trade). Or perhaps you are "documenting" the huge value of each of the numerous pieces of crystal you gave to your favorite charity (neither of which scenarios apply to more than 0.01% of taxpayers).
I suspect something really smells in the "facts" cited in this posting! Income taxes are far more complicated than they should be and grow more complicated every year but, this is because EVERYONE has their own little "Pet Benefit" to demand and ultimately have their congresscritter deliver! While we all rail against the complexities..., NONE of us are willing to give up the current system if we determine that we will lose a dollar of advantage under whatever system is proposed as a replacement!!!
Remember the centuries old adage... "Don't tax you and don't tax me...., tax that fella over under that tree" (true in the 1700s as it is today!).
NONE of us are willing to give up the current system if we determine that we will lose a dollar of advantage under whatever system is proposed as a replacement!!!
Some of us see an advantage in the liberty and return of financial privacy a retail sales tax inherently has over an income tax system. I happen to be one of those that would only see a marginal improvement economically, if any at all but I am more than willing to accept that, for the benefit that would be realized by my family and children in their lives. To be rid of the inherent legal jeopardy that is built into the intrusive nature of the income/payroll tax system is a substantial benefit to every American.
Sometimes advantage is not always directly measurable in dollars to the individual. Though the NRST as proposed in H.R.25 comes awful close to providing both dollar advantage and increased freedom to nearly everyone.
"Don't tax you and don't tax me...., tax that fella over under that tree"
When one realises, they are the person behind the tree, this takes on a much different perspective.
DO YOU PAY YOUR INCOME TAX
AT THE SUPERMARKET?
by D. Sherman Cox J.D. L.L.M. Taxation
The full impact of the federal tax system(taxes in gross wage/salaries & other compensation + business income/payroll taxes) added onto the base(taxfree) price of retail consumption goods and services is 36% for federal taxes alone.
I would certainly join you in that but, our political system (regardless of party) merely panders to the baser urges of the voting citizenry and delivers whatever the majority thinks it wants. We are lucky not to have passed that magic threshold where the majority imposes a wholly confiscatory taxation level on the productive minority (or as the left describes them... the winners of life's lottery).
I do not have much faith that that threshold lies before us and will be the fate of our children! There are many challenges facing folks who come after the "Baby Boomers"!
but, our political system (regardless of party) merely panders to the baser urges of the voting citizenry and delivers whatever the majority thinks it wants.
Actually I find it more often responds to that swing 2 or 3% who make themselves known by rattling cages now and then. They yell loud enough, it just appears to be a majority.
We are lucky not to have passed that magic threshold where the majority imposes a wholly confiscatory taxation level on the productive minority
Unfortunately, we are perceptually over that line already as the main federal cue is the individual income tax as perceived through the damnable 1040:
Those who perceive little burden play the role of Poor little Paul:
| Effective Individual Federal Income Tax Rate (Percent of gross income) | |||||||||||
| Income Category | 1977 | 1979 | 1981 | 1983 | 1985 | 1987 | 1989 | 1991 | 1993 | 1995 | Projected 1999 |
| Lowest Quintile | -0.6 | -0.8 | -0.2 | -0.5 | -0.2 | -1.3 | -1.9 | -2.9 | -3.4 | -5.6 | -6.8 |
| Second Quintile | 3.6 | 3.9 | 4.6 | 3.5 | 3.9 | 3.2 | 3.3 | 2.7 | 1.8 | 1.8 | 0.9 |
| Middle Quintile | 7.1 | 7.5 | 8.3 | 6.8 | 6.8 | 6.1 | 6.5 | 6.3 | 5.9 | 6.1 | 5.4 |
Those that readily perceive some of the burden.
| Effective Individual Federal Income Tax Rate (Percent of gross income) | |||||||||||
| Income Category | 1977 | 1979 | 1981 | 1983 | 1985 | 1987 | 1989 | 1991 | 1993 | 1995 | Projected 1999 |
| Fourth Quintile | 9.7 | 10.4 | 11.3 | 9.5 | 9.3 | 8.7 | 8.9 | 8.7 | 8.5 | 8.7 | 8.4 |
| Highest Quintile | 15.8 | 16.3 | 17.1 | 14.5 | 14.3 | 15.1 | 15.1 | 14.8 | 15.5 | 16.2 | 16.1 |
Data from IRS collections statistics and The Bureau of Economic Analysis as compiled in tabular form by the Congressional Budget Office.
http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1545&from=4&sequence=0
To play the role of mean ole Rich Peter.
Right now that bottom 60% up there perceives little to no "Individual Income Tax" burden,(in many cases even a handout) and 70% of the voting public clamor for more from government looking for the top 40% of income earners/producers to foot the bill. That perception continues to grow ever stronger by eliminating even more participants from the Federal Individual Income Tax rolls as proposed in many tax reduction proposals through changes in personal exemption limits and other mechanisms such as the EITC.
The issue is not one of reality however, it is of perceptions, for the reality is that the full federal tax burden distributes through the pricing of consumer goods and service as a consequence of the embedding of taxes both in business, as well as the wages of labor which are reflected in the prices we pay for products across the board.
That is one message that must ultimately be delivered at least to those central and higher income voters who really do pay the bills yet do not always perceive the full burden of government largess in their lives.
Along with the first, the second message targeted to the lower levels of income, is the Family Consumption Allowence relief built into the NRST compensating for expenditures for necessities at the povertyline of income. That should a strong incentive to meet the concerns at that end of the spectrum.
With the third message of the release from tax reporting that frees the individual from government's intrusive mechanisms reaching to many in all camps.
Taken as a whole, the NRST proposed in H.R.25, is as complete a package as can be designed to provide elements that are attractive through the full economic and political spectrum.
The key is getting the message out in ways that reaches all levels of society, and informs of the benefits of the NRST for every American.
See how ugly and crooked that looks?
The government does not desire a fair and easy way to collect income taxes.
The issue is not what some nebulous government wants; It is what do you want and are willing to work for?
Other folks are working to change that scene to something better, by replacing representatives in government that reflect a different way of doing things with an ever-increasing number of members of Congress actually trying to make it happen
Senate
Herman Cain for United States Senate, state of Georgia 2004
House
Dennis Umphress, libertarian (California 16th District)
And more coming on board as we progress.
Time to find out don't you think?
Yeah, it's not like people have been trying to change the tax process and tax codes for the past 30 plus years...
See how ugly and crooked that looks?
Just what is need to initiate change toward smaller government:
23%........... Effective total federal tax rate with respect to consumption expenditure
14.91% ..... rate if Social Security and Medicare were eliminated
14% .......... rate if Nat'l Endowment for the Arts were eliminated
11.9%........ rate if Dept. of Education were eliminated
10% .......... rate if welfare were eliminated
9.8%.......... rate if foreign aid were eliminated
etc.
So lets look at what the maximum it would take to fund those functions clearly authorized under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution, in current dollars:
http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html#Spending
- $334 Billion --- Defense & Military related expenditure
- $ 31 Billion ---- Administration of Justice
- $ 16 Billion ---- General Government
- $199 Billion ---- Interest on the Debt
=========================
$580 Billion ---- Total
Institute an across the board, Flat rate, single stage National Retail Sales Tax, which taxes all imports and domestic products with the same rate.
Replacing present all current federal tax law with a retail sales tax would be 23% on new goods and services paid and receipted at the retail register. No hidden tax, no exceptions, exemptions everyone participates.
Such a tax acts in a natural manner to encourage the elimination of excess government functions through visibility of burden among all constituencies of the electorate.
The total federal government budget would move from $2,000 billions towards something less than $580 billions calculated.
The across the board federal tax rate on new goods and services would decline towards less than 6.7%.
As tax rate on sales decreases the economic burden on retail items, the sales volumes and growth in the economy would be tremendous allowing even further reductions in tax rates below that less than 6.7% theoretic level.
That is what I perceive as the ultimate achievements possible under a National Retail Sales Tax structured in the manner of the revenue bill H.R.25. Simple common sense applied to the principal of TANSTAFFEL,( no free lunch, everyone participates in paying there way in proportion to the benefit the extract from their consumption.) encourages the natural change in attitudes required of the electorate as regards the burden of government largess in their lives.
- It is fairer to tax people on what they extract from the economy, as roughly measured by their consumption, than to tax them on what they produce for the economy, as roughly measured by their income
Hmmmmmm....... It's do able, with time and effort, once the blinders are removed from the electorate.
Yeah, it's not like people have been trying to change the tax process and tax codes for the past 30 plus years...
So?
It took 140+ year to make the current political and income/payroll tax system what it is today.
Even God gave the Israelites 40yrs to go from slavery to freedom. You expect the change in government and the electorate to be done over night?
Just think just 10 years to go. Since last congressional session we have gone from a single bill HR2525 in the house with 7 co-sponsors to the current bill HR25, with 43 co-sponsors and introduction of the Senate sister bill S1493. That with just the effort a few determined folks working for change.
With you and others to help, how much sooner will the goal be reached? We only need 50% of House to force discharge from committe and pass the House. Make some more changes in the Senate with folks like Herman Cain & Senator Shelby coming on board, discharge & enactment become a reasonable thing to do.
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