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More details emerge on reports of terrorist activity before 9-11 attacks... [Story is up]
Drudge Report ^ | 2-23-04

Posted on 02/23/2004 4:58:38 PM PST by RWR8189

Edited on 02/23/2004 7:53:53 PM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]

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To: american spirit
Weren't Gore and Daschle's wife involved with the safety on airplanes before 9/11?

It bugs me that the Lib media always wants to uncover another Woodward/Bernstein/Watergate story while the real thing brews and oozes up through their feet every day.
61 posted on 02/24/2004 12:50:33 PM PST by CalifornianConservative
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To: RWR8189
but we were unable to come up with anything. It was an unlisted phone number in the U.A.E.,

Get an unlisted number and the govt can't find you, got to remember that.

62 posted on 02/25/2004 4:23:34 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: tubavil
In one sentence, Tenet is a disasterous failure.

Various FR threads detail why.

Yeah, sure. I see lots of demands to fire Tenet, and bald assertions that he's deficient, but what I don't see is relevant or substantive criticism. Your own example is not only entirely anecdotal, it's also in the FBI's department. (Plus, how do you know these people "openly talk[ing] about jihad" are not being monitored already.)

What we have is Tenet's track record.

He began the process of reviving HUMINT after it had been gutted by his predecessors; he literally pounded the witness table in hearings urging policy makers to take the offensive against al-Qaeda, and identifying Bin Laden as the country's single most important covert threat, years before 911; he promoted Coffer Black, the Khartom station chief, to head the CIA's Counterterrorism Center precisely because of his expertise on al-Qaeda and his aggressiveness; he increased the staff of the Counterterrorism Center from a few dozen employees to over 300, again years before 911, while also integrating FBI employees on special assignment and actively addressing institution infighting that undermined the center; etc, etc, etc.

Oh, yeah, unlike the technophobic Freeh at the FBI (who DID need to be fired) Tenet has been a consistent booster of modernization and innovation. He supported and pushed development of the Predator drone, for instance. With a less far sighted Director (who would have deferred to the Defense Dept's plodding development of similar but ultimately overly complex and less effective systems) we wouldn't have had that vital resource available, which has been responsible for smoking many high level al-Qaeda operatives.

Another example of his embrace of effective innovation is Tenet's promotion of In-Q-Tel, a nonprofit org established in '99 that funds CIA technology and software projects and incorporates private sector innovations. Prior to this, private firms with cutting edge technologies avoided the CIA because of it's cumbersome procurement procedures.

Along the same line, Tenet installed the ex-marine and retired millionaire investment banker A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard as the CIA's executive officer with a charge to cut through the Agency's bloated bureaucracy. Among other bold reforms, Krongard eliminated an entire directorate -- the powerful but bloated and sluggish fourth directorate, of administration -- so that (as in a private firm) the CIA's various divisions now report directly to higher management.

Again, you could not possibly be more absolutely wrong. Far from being a "disastrous failure," Tenet is unquestionably the best director the CIA has had in decades. Firing him would be a boon to Bin Laden, but not to the American people. The only thing "disastrous" would the plummeting morale in the Agency, and the intelligence community generally, if Tenet is scapegoated.

63 posted on 02/25/2004 10:40:43 PM PST by Stultis
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To: CalifornianConservative; FairOpinion
More on Tenet. See preceding message.
64 posted on 02/25/2004 10:42:49 PM PST by Stultis
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To: PhiKapMom; Ragtime Cowgirl; kristinn
Please see the preceding message. You are urged to do what you can to blunt the dangerously escalating calls to scapegoat CIA Director George Tenet.
65 posted on 02/25/2004 10:48:05 PM PST by Stultis
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To: tubavil
Tenet is unquestionably the best director the CIA has had in decades.

...Well, I should say, "IMHO," rather than "unquestionably." (But, I firmly believe I'm right on this.)

66 posted on 02/25/2004 11:08:27 PM PST by Stultis
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To: Stultis
Thank you very very much for some much needed actual information on Tenet.

However, it is very very sad that it took an end of the thread FReeper dialogue to hear it.

How come Tenet or Bush (or someone in power!) cannot forcefully put forward their own good case? It is like when it comes to anything before 9/11, and no one will say anything about Clinton's lack of military understanding. And I mean Republicans in office.

Was the '98 impeachment process so frightening to our conservative elected officials that they cannot bring themselves to accurately articulate the truth about the whys and wherefores of our intelligence gathering agencies (and capabilities)?

It's like there is this veil of silence over the whole Clinton debacle from elected conservatives.

Meanwhile, the Left takes advantage of this vacuum and has forcefully attempted to put forward its whacko agendas -- gay marriage, the WMD "lies" etc.

In dramaturgy, the protagonist has to be in action, pushing the situation forward. He's lost if he becomes a passive re-actor to events.

Time for Bush and all elected Republicans to play the hero and start pushing forward the arguments that we all know are sound.

They can't just let talk show hosts and internet blogs do their work for them. Time to "play the man" with cajones.

Again, it's just sad that I have to hear about the good Tenet has done in such an obscure manner.
67 posted on 02/25/2004 11:10:36 PM PST by CalifornianConservative
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To: CalifornianConservative
Here's a good source on Tenet's achievements. It's overly critical of Bill Casey, IMHO. Actually the criticisms of Casey -- poor handling of congress, shakey and inattentive adminstrative skills, failure to kill some ill conceived and counter productive operations, etc -- are reasonably fair and accurate, but OTOH his positives are almost entirely ommited. For instance, Casey is given no credit at all for his most important accomplishments: his development of the economic warfare strategy against the Soviet Union, and his cultivatation of accurate intelligence on the previously murkey status of the Soviet economy.

The CIA At War by Ronald Kessler

68 posted on 02/25/2004 11:30:38 PM PST by Stultis
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To: Stultis
Thanks for the info about Tenet. I guess that explains why Bush is keeping him around.

"The only thing "disastrous" would the plummeting morale in the Agency, and the intelligence community generally, if Tenet is scapegoated."


I think the morale of the intel officers is one of the main reasons, Bush has been against all the probes, he wants people to look forward, not back, and be busy catching terrorists, instead of devising CYA strategies.

Your info definitely showed a different side of Tenet, but I still think that "mistakes were made", to be diplomatic about it.

But I agree, that firing Tenet may open things up to witch hunts, and that's the last thing we need.

I do trust Bush that he is making the best decision given the whole situation -- much of which we on the outside are unaware of.
69 posted on 02/26/2004 7:58:39 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: Khan Noonian Singh
PING

Some interesting view/info about Tenet in post 63 of this thread.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1084017/posts?page=63#63
70 posted on 02/26/2004 8:15:30 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: FairOpinion
Your info definitely showed a different side of Tenet, but I still think that "mistakes were made", to be diplomatic about it.

Yes, and as the top intelligence figure, Tenet will have to demonstrate that a hard-nosed and thorough "lessons learned" process and been professionally carried through. He's pledged to do that. I don't have too much problem with those who want to keep the pressure on, or with good faith criticism, but there are many (and not only 'Rats) who are trying to give Tenet the "bum's rush".

71 posted on 02/26/2004 10:19:56 PM PST by Stultis
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To: Stultis
OK -- I have an important question about Tenet.

What do the people who work for him at the CIA think of him? How is the morale at the CIA?

People talk about a "cop's cop" -- is Tenet an "agent's agent"?

Do those people feel that they would like him to stay or go?

I mean these as serious question -- as I said we don't see a lot, but what we saw were a number of things we don't like. The causes of that are various -- from the Torricelli bill basically making the CIA impotent, to other things. It's hard to separate the problems, that were not the fault of the CIA, but Congress, from things that the CIA could have done better.

That's why I think the opinion of those working there are important.
72 posted on 02/26/2004 10:33:49 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: FairOpinion
I'm no expert or insider. I'll give you a bit more later, but if your library has back issues of Fortune magazine, they had a long feature on Tenet last fall. I haven't read it, and unfortunately the full text is not available online, but it looks like it might be worthwhile:

How George Tenet Brought the CIA Back From the Dead
Amid controversy and two wars, he's led a classic turnaround by running the Agency like a business.
Bill Powell
Published: 09/29/2003

A followup by the same reporter:

The Trials of Tenet
The CIA director finds himself in the middle of two controversies.
Bill Powell
Published: 10/13/2003

73 posted on 02/27/2004 6:54:18 AM PST by Stultis
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To: RWR8189
Great to know our intel boys are on the job - gives me a warm feeling in my pants. Them CIA critters make the big bucks so's we can sleep at ease knowing they are front line key folks.
74 posted on 02/27/2004 7:00:27 AM PST by sandydipper (Never quit - never surrender!)
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To: Stultis
Thanks for the links to those articles. I will read them.

I didn't mean to suggest that you are an "insider", which you wouldn't admit, even if you were, naturally, but it seems that even CIA agents do get interviewed off the record, etc., and I was curious, as to how they view Tenet.

75 posted on 02/27/2004 7:29:37 AM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: FairOpinion
I guess I'm on about Tenet, even though I don't have any special insight, because he seems to have so few defenders here, and the attacks on him never seem to include any specific or detailed criticisms (which is irritating).

He certainly seems to be well liked within the Agency, and has been well spoken of by many former CIA and intelligence figures.

Senator Shelby, who heads the Senate Intelligence Committee, wanted Tenet replaced when Bush took office (I'm not up to date on what Shelby's position is now) but it may be telling that even this critic had some pretty good things to say about Tenet. Shelby's argument was -- because the CIA Director putatively heads the country's entire intelligence apparatus (incl, IIRC, FBI, NSA, Defense Intell, and multiple other agencies) but has no direct or formal power over any agency other than his own -- that the job requires someone with more political "pull," a more powerful and connected figure. For instance a Colin Powell, a Dick Cheney, or someone that can use his or her status to influence policy over the many separate intelligence agencies.

76 posted on 02/27/2004 10:25:54 AM PST by Stultis
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To: FairOpinion
<< Some interesting view/info about Tenet in post 63 of this thread. >>

Thank you for the ping. It is good to read an alternative view, and with specifics no less.

Here is my question. Did the CIA leave Bush in the lurch after the Iraq war? First they claimed detailed knowledge of WMD in Iraq. Then, when the time came to deliver, they just said, "Sorry, we were wrong."

The story falls flat. Although people can argue that the original claim wasn't definitive, the truth is that it was about as unequivocal as anything you ever see in intelligence.

So

- Did the CIA lead Bush on originally?

- Why did the CIA not come up with any WMD evidence after the war? This was completely unsupportive of Bush, since the implicit expectation was that they would back up the initial WMD claims as necessary.

- What does Tenet have to do with this, if anything? I know "the buck stops here", but the CIA has many little cliques, enveloped in secrecy, which keep things hidden from one another. It must be a very difficult organization to manage, and even if some people there pulled a fast one on Bush, Tenet may not be the one to blame.

- Why is Bush so committed to Tenet if he doesn't get some loyalty in return?

77 posted on 02/27/2004 11:23:42 AM PST by Khan Noonian Singh
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To: Persephone Kore
Ping to an interesting thread.
78 posted on 02/27/2004 11:24:52 AM PST by Khan Noonian Singh
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To: Khan Noonian Singh
thank you.
79 posted on 02/27/2004 7:11:49 PM PST by Persephone Kore
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To: Khan Noonian Singh
Why is Bush so committed to Tenet if he doesn't get some loyalty in return?

Tenet certainly owes Bush dedicated and professional service, but I don't think we want the CIA Director in the position of having to "defend" the President. You've seen the 'Rats accusing the Administration of trying to "politicize" intelligence (while they are doing so themselves in spades). Let's keep those charges firmly in the realm of cynical and hypocritical smears, and also remember that making the intelligence apparatus too political does degrade their product.

When the 'Rats grilled Tenet over missing WMDs in recent hearings, the Director took exactly the right approach. He promised to provide a thorough and professional review of intelligence failures vis-a-vis Iraq (as indeed he should) when the facts are in, and would address them in the next annual intelligence assessment. When the 'Rats attempted to implicate Tenet or the intelligence product wrt supposed policy failures, Tenet again gave the correct response. He doesn't make the policy.

- Why did the CIA not come up with any WMD evidence after the war? This was completely unsupportive of Bush, since the implicit expectation was that they would back up the initial WMD claims as necessary.

- What does Tenet have to do with this, if anything? I know "the buck stops here", but the CIA has many little cliques, enveloped in secrecy, which keep things hidden from one another. It must be a very difficult organization to manage, and even if some people there pulled a fast one on Bush, Tenet may not be the one to blame.

I doubt it. It doesn't work in a way that would facilitate such nefarious sabotage, at least not in the Bush administration. Policy makers, from Bush on down, ask too many questions, and such deception, if intentional, would be exposed. Recall how the 'Rats have been claiming that Administration officials, especially Cheney, tried to "pressure" the CIA to come up with certain conclusions by visiting CIA headquarters? What really happened was that Cheney (and other officials, incl Powell, but most often Cheney) went there to go over the intelligence and ask questions in order to understand exactly what they were looking at.

They would put Cheney into a room, and then bring in the actual analysts who had produced the assessments, and who were most familiar with the raw intelligence. Far from being threatening to the CIA, or interpreted as "pressure," analysts and Agency officials welcome that level of interest in their product, and are happy to interact, answer questions, and help policy makers better understand it. Anyhow, the analysts are not, at least wrt to a serious minded Executive, able to anonymously manipulate the the product, simply because they are not anonymous. Cheney and others sit down with them, and sometimes go over the raw intelligence together (as do their superiors in the Agency). Furthermore, policy makers will often ask questions that haven't been addressed in the analysis, which may require the raw intelligence to be reevaluated (and/or more intelligence to be gathered) and this may well involve other analysts, or various others looking over the original analyst's shoulder.

In short, the kind of conspiracy you're suggesting just wouldn't work (I don't think) even if someone in the Agency wanted to do it to damage the Administration.

80 posted on 02/27/2004 8:03:13 PM PST by Stultis
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