When is a proof? (A**-Clown, Double Barf Bag ALert, CODE RED)

Mathematics Association of America ^ | 1 June 2003 | Keith Devlin

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I have to write a MathTest this afternoon, I guess I'll see if a I can pose some left wing questions to the students.

[Luke Skyfreeper]

Would that include the part where he says, "Like right wing policies, for all that it appeals to individuals who crave certitude in life, the right wing definition of mathematical proof is an unrealistic ideal that does not survive the first contact with the real world."?

OK, I'll grant there's a definite "lean" to that part of the article.

It still doesn't amount to anything near a super-gaggo mega-upchuck barf alert.

[.cnI redruM]

My point is this. You don't have to be a lefty to effectively think in subjective terms. Sometimes that is a necessity, and we can do it just as well as the lefties.

[Luke Skyfreeper]

My point is this. You don't have to be a lefty to effectively think in subjective terms. Sometimes that is a necessity, and we can do it just as well as the lefties.

Well, I don't have any judgment on that. My point is more basic: generally speaking, conservatives think, and liberals feeeeeeeeeeeel.

A difference in quality of policies generally results.

[Dr. Frank fan]

It ["right wing policies" crack] still doesn't amount to anything near a super-gaggo mega-upchuck barf alert.

If you say so. Your mileage may vary, of course. But I do think people can be forgiven for taking umbrage at it.

As for myself, again, all I'm saying is that it made me roll my eyes. Honestly I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they can't keep stuff like that out of what purports to be a serious essay on mathematics. But that's just the mathematician in me speaking, perhaps....

[sirshackleton]

Uhhh....dude...could you repeat that?

[.cnI redruM]

Eviscerate at your leisure. There is plenty here worthy of fulsome contempt.

[.cnI redruM]

BTW, Spicolli rules...

[ShadowDancer]

There is plenty here worthy of fulsome contempt.

Your juvenile ad-libbed title is a good place to start.

[Sloth]

I disagree with the particulars of his 'right-wing' and 'left-wing' descriptions -- he seems to be equating them with 'concrete' and 'abstract', respectively, more than the 'perfect-to-the-letter' and 'warm fuzzy' way he describes them. I will say, though, that as a right-winger I feel uncomfortable espousing any position if I cannot document a methodical, objective means of supporting it, rather than mere intuition.

[.cnI redruM]

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it.

[Political Junkie Too]

Is this the reason why cartoonist Aaron MacGruder can say, "I believe that Condi Rice is a murderer, therefore I can call her a murderer?"

-PJ

[theFIRMbss]

> As time is finite, often one reads papers and says "that statement seems plausible", and one keeps reading.

Well, this is something
Wolfram's "New Kind of Science"
might contribute to.

An algorithmic
approach to reality
becomes "testable" --

become provable --
simply in execution.
Programs run, or don't.

They do exactly
what they're supposed to do, or
they don't. By building

his foundational
thinking on programs, and then
making them public,

"proof" becomes, kind of,
implicit in the "thinking."
"New" science, new "proofs" . . .

[.cnI redruM]

Not only that, but according to Dr. Devlin, Aaron MacGruder can mathematically prove it.

[timydnuc]

It's left wing "logic" like this that gives me a headache. Excuse me while I get an excedrin and a martini.

[Sloth]

My point is more basic: generally speaking, conservatives think, and liberals feeeeeeeeeeeel.

True, and I'm sure that more math profs would be politically conservative than artsy types; but in turn, more engineering profs would be politically conservative than the pure math or physics guys... because in engineering, it actually *matters* whether you're right or not. We don't live in a perfect, frictionless world, and engineers have to be aware of that. Similarly, public policy does not take place in a perfect world of the best intentions and common interests -- human nature & self-interest introduce other variables.

[skinkinthegrass]

It's like trying to disprove |2|+|2|=|4|.

[Luke Skyfreeper]

Further comments.

Conservatives tend to be constrained by and adhere to objective truth; for liberals, truth is whatever furthers their agenda.

And thinking is a better basis on which to formulate policy than emotion. It gets better results.

[BlazingArizona]

In left-wing mathematics, on the other hand, proofs are unnecessary: just build a bomb in the privacy of your Montana cabin and mail it to those who hold opposing hypotheses. Ammonium nitrate beats logic anytime.

[Luke Skyfreeper]

Ammonium nitrate beats logic anytime.

Not true; else the pen would not be mightier than the sword.

Of course, the pen is often used to simply stir up emotion.

So perhaps emotion beats ammonium nitrate.

Whatever.