WHAT MAKES METH SO BAD

Pioneer Press ^ | February 22, 2004 | Amy Becker

[Eva]

My husband was talking to WA state environmental officials, who told him that their statistics show that 80% of meth users get hooked on the first try. The drug is just highly addictive.

[Kozak]

Narcolepsy, ADD, and USAF pilots - that's about it

Tut tut. Also used in little old ladies suffering from a lack of energy, Asthenia. (NOT kidding, seen it done by Internists and it works great!).

[Kozak]

It's not illegal. In fact Adderall is now routinely prescribed to kids with ADHD. It's a combination of dextroamthetamine and amphetamine.

[realpatriot71]

Tut tut. Also used in little old ladies suffering from a lack of energy, Asthenia. (NOT kidding, seen it done by Internists and it works great!).

Yeah Docs will occasionally give pharmaceutical speed to the elderly - they're the least likely to abuse it. Hell, when I'm retired and 75 years old, I'll try and get hooked up with a sweet amphetamine Rx. What's the worst that could happen to me . . . :-)

[Kozak]

Not IIRC- that was either benzedrine, dexedreine, or methedrine- they're all amphetamines, but they're not methamphetamine.

About as significant a difference as getting drunk on whiskey, vodka or rum.

[realpatriot71]

It's not illegal. In fact Adderall is now routinely prescribed to kids with ADHD. It's a combination of dextroamthetamine and amphetamine.

It's not OTC legal - house wives used to be able to get dextro in "diet pills" at the grocery store.

[Kozak]

Right oh. Remember this stuff is made with lye, sulfuric acid and other strong reagents and cut with
god only knows what. It's not exactly FDA approved quality either.

[sphinx]

Who do you want dead? The dealers or the idiots, so weak they use it?

I sometimes think the solution is a voluntary quarantine. Just open a junkie ranch -- a legal reservation in a mild climate that offered pup tents, free food (nothing fancy; military rations would do) and unlimited drugs of your choice. Most of the users would kill themselves pretty quickly, but that's their business and it would clear the streets of the dead end cases. Any outsider who wanted to do reclamation work could open the mission of his choice, and any user who wanted to leave could do so after testing clean in a rigorous program lasting at least a year.

[fourdeuce82d]

About as significant a difference as getting drunk on whiskey, vodka or rum

Ummm...again, not IIRC.

I think a more accurate analogy would be 3.2 beer vs 180 proof Everclear.

Also, to round out the analogy, the various parhmaceutical "speed" preperations were generally given as pills. People who use crank usually try snorting it first, and then move on to smoking or shooting it. This leads to a much more intense experience, both in immediacy and intensity- folks I've talked to say it's almost like the body rush you get from dropping acid.

Using the alcohol analogy, it's the difference between sipping on a 3.2 12 oz beer over 45 minutes, and slamming a triple/quadruple shot of everclear.

Regarldless of the metaphor used, I do think there's a qualitative difference between taking a couple of diet pills, and smoking/running it. The worst part is, from what I've heard, is that the initial rush is very hard to recaputre- people smoke/shoot a big ol' wad, and then spend the next day or two trying to recapture that first rush. They can't, but they keep on trying.

[tj005]

>>>I'll never understand how this stuff gets so popular<<<

Well, knoeinh the chemical reaction that takes place in the brain would assist your understanding... Imagine a scenario relative to the neuro dopamine receptors in your brain, and then compare a sexual orgasm to a BB hitting your brain with the meth reaction to a bowling ball hitting your brain. THAT is why it is so desirable. Imagine CHOOSING not to ever have the pleasure 10+ times more than an orgasm? Hard choice to make once you have experienced it.

[tj005]

The doctors say he doesn't have Parkinsons. ...

Doctors also argue that gun control will save lives. ;^)



Bingo

[tj005]

>>Do you remember "black beauties"? I do!<<

Black beauties, Black Mollies, RJS, East Coast Turnarounds... lots of old names... lol

[Kozak]

Nope. Pharmocologically it's all dose related. The actual potency is pretty similar between meth and d amphetamine. Your 3.2 to everclear is a massive overstatement. It's closer to the difference between 80 and 100 proof alcohol.
Toxic doses for both meth and D amphetimine are around 1mg?kg.
Here's a dosage table from the Micromedix:

1) Table I. Usual Adult Daily Dose -
DRUG DOSE (mg)
Amphetamine 5 to 60
Benzphetamine 25 to 50
Chlobenzorex 60
Diethylpropion 25 to 75
Methamphetamine 2.5 to 5
Methylphenidate 10 to 60
Pemoline 56.25 to 112.5
Phendimetrazine 17.5 to 35
Phenmetrazine 12.5 to 25
Phentermine 24 to 30

People abusing d amphetamine or Ritaline, just take a few more pills or gring up up and snort them. ditto injection.

[TKDietz]

"My husband was talking to WA state environmental officials, who told him that their statistics show that 80% of meth users get hooked on the first try. The drug is just highly addictive."

It's really addictive bad stuff, but it's just not true that 80% of people get hooked on the first try. I don't think there are any drugs that people can actually get addicted to after using only once. People might like it a lot after the first try but they don't get to the point to where they can't live without it until they have done it for a while. Even with meth, most people who try it do not ever become addicted. If 80% became addicted we wouldn't have only had 567,000 people in this country reporting use within the last month out of the 12,383,000 who reported on the 2002 National Survey on Drug Use & Health that they have tried the stuff before. http://www.samhsa.gov/oas/nhsda/2k2nsduh/html/Sect1peTabs1to110.htm#tab1.1a

Methamphetamine is still prescribed in this country on a limited basis for ADHD children and for weight loss. It is sold under the trade name "Desoxyn." http://www.healthsquare.com/newrx/des1613.htm

[TKDietz]

There are major differences in the way many the drugs you listed work. Methylphenidate does not mimic the "high" of methamphetamine no matter how much Ritalin one uses, whether they crush it up and shoot it up or not it won't have the same effect. There are similarities in these drugs, but meth will affect different parts of the brain and the high is more reinforcing in the pleasure centers. Too much Ritalin will make a person feel bad, not good, just like you can have too much caffeine or too much psuedo-ephedrine. For some reason, people can take a lot more meth, not in terms of quantity but in terms of stimulant effect, before it starts making them feel sick.

I've seen this explained somewhere before in scientific terms in a way that is probably easier to understand than the way I have just explained it, but hopefully I'm making some sense.

[Kozak]

You are wrong. I know where of I speak as I am an ED physician andi have treated patients with OD and chronic abuse of Methamphetamine, Ritalin, and other amphetamines. They all affect the dopaminergic, and sertonine receptors of the brain. Some are slightly more potent then others, but not to the huge and varied degree you state.

[Kozak]

Thats serotonine receptors.

[TheRightGuy]

Remember this stuff is made with lye, sulfuric acid and other strong reagents and cut with god only knows what.

.. and each batch will have its unique character

It's not exactly FDA approved quality either.

The only quality control considerations are how soon can I sell it and for how much.

[dirtboy]

This whole "Meth" problem is just the result of the government employment program aka the War on Drugs.

I think the War on Some Drugs needs to be modified in several areas, especially regarding pot. But your comment is, quite frankly, dangerously ignorant of the reality of meth manufacture and abuse. Meth is probably the most dangerous hard drug out there, and the manufacture creates a clear hazard to neighbors.

[dirtboy]

Authoritarian statists tempt the weak people who can't think for themselves or accept responsibility for their own actions.

I think we'd both agree that weed and booze have similar overall societal impacts.

But meth is an entirely different manner. Growing pot in your backyard isn't a danger to others, unlike the manufacture of meth. We criminalize drunk driving even if harm does not occur because of the high likelihood of harm and the severity of the harm from drunk drivers. Likewise, IMO both the manufacture and use of meth crosses a similar threshhold and justify criminalization.