California Gun Violation - Section 12280 - Seeking Advice

[oldtimer]

The National Rifle Association should be of some help to you. Good luck with the Workers Republic of Kalifornistan.

[.38sw]

I'm pretty sure that pennysaver doesn't have them anymore. When the Cal. DOJ determines that you have a firearm in your possession that they decide meets the definition of an "assault weapon", they drop by your house and collect said weapon.

[AreaMan]

The CRPA California Rifle and Pistol Association may be able to help.

271 East Imperial Highway, Suite 620
Fullerton, California 92835
(714) 992-C2R7P7A2 .FAX (714) 992-2996

Try this attorney:

Chuck. D. Michel
TRUTANICH-MICHEL, LLP
Attorneys At Law
Port of Los Angeles Office
407 North Harbor Blvd.
San Pedro, California 90731

He works with NRA and CRPA.

As for proof of ownership, the California DOJ should have a copy of the DROS (Dealer's Register of Sale) and maybe a copy of the 4473. Try to get your attorney to subpoena thos forms.

[drypowder]

You can thank/cuss (Rino) Dan Lungrin for your situation. I know that's no help but thought I'd mention it because that jackass is running for congress in the 3rd district.

[Dutch Boy]

What happens in states like NY when the AWB sunsets? Pataki changed state law to match the AWB except there is no sunset. I wish these guys would at least buy us dinner first. Otherwise we just feel used.

[wadeintothem]

And he's running against Rico Oller... 3rd Dist = Rico!

Dan Lunger is slime.

[FairOpinion]

I am not up on the laws -- obviously you and your lawyer need to explore that part.

Here is one other thing, that I think you should explore -- distasteful, yes, but it may be expedient and get you out from under. This possibility is to negotiate with the DA, -- "I am SOOOO SORRY, I was not aware of that law (which you weren't), having even misdeamenor charges against me will destroy my life, I am a law abiding, model citizen, who would never knowingly break the law, could you PLEASE, drop the charges, I will be happy to pay a fine, just so all criminal charges will be completely expunged from my record".

As I said, it goes against the grain to do that, because those laws are unconstitutional, but you would have to prove it.

Bottom line: do some real research about the chances of beating this, if it goes to trial, and whether the NRA wants to get involved in defending you (paying your attorney or get one of their own) and make it a "landmark case", etc., but consider the above solution, because I think by being sufficiently contrite (hard as that is to do), you may get the charges dropped, and not ruin the rest of your life, when they ask you on application, whether you have ever been convicted of a crime, to have to admit to having been convicted of a misdemeanor.

Best of luck!

Do your research and make your decision weighing all options, and their chances of success carefully.

[PA Farmer]

You have no recourse under CA law. If the NRA, etc., could help, they'd already be doing so. My question to Freepers is, where are the Bush Administration and John Ashcroft, who claim to be our friends on this issue? You might say, "AWOL."

[beebuster2000]

what were the guns ?

[joltinjoe]

Tell them that like Gavin Newsom in SF who is marrying gays because he feels it is unconstitutional for them not to be married, you believe that the gun ban is unconstitutional. Then note that nothing has happened to Gavin, so nothing should happen to you.

Welcome to the "do whatever you want" state.

[RatSlayer]

Contact Alan Gottlieb at the Second Amendment Foundation (http://www.saf.org).

IIRC, they have won a court case against the CA AWB.

[SunStar]

What the hell kind of lame-brained advice are you trying to give this guy??!!! He is a law-abiding citizen, and you are advising him to take what is probably a criminal action???!!!

I don't know what to tell him to do, but at least I know better than to give him dangerous, crap advice like that.

Look, I tend to agree with you. However, since the State of California is violating the 2nd Amendment, my suggestion is valid as an option/choice.

If the State of California decides that certain speech is illegal, would you never speak the forbidden words?

[The KG9 Kid]

The lawyer you want to contact is Bruce Colodny:

503 South Glassell St., Orange, California (714) 639-6767
1881 Business Center Drive, Suite 8-B, San Bernardino, California (909) 862-3113
Mailing Address: PO Box 10787, San Bernardino, California 92423-0787

I've been witness to this scenario before in Riverside County. The DA will likely allow you to plea bargain down to surrendering your firearms without a conviction for the misdemeanors on your record.

[William Tell]

You are, based on what you are describing, guilty of a "crime" and only jury nullification or a ruling by the Supreme Court of the US can change that.

The problem with allowing oneself to be found guilty of any infraction whatever is that some future law might stip a person of their right to keep and bear arms for having been convicted, despite the prohibition in the US Constitution against ex post facto laws.

You mention that you failed to "re-register" the rifles. This seems to indicate that you complied with one of the earlier of the so-called "assault weapons" laws and then did not comply with a later one.

Should you face a jury, it will be necessary for them to understand the nature of your crime and this will be very difficult for the prosecution. Attempts to have some of these laws struck down on "vagueness" grounds are still ongoing, I believe.

I have spent many hundreds of dollars storing my ugly rifles out of state so that I would never fall under the power of someone like Bill Lockyer. I would not recommend to anyone that they allow themselves to be threatened by such laws. One must remember what happened at Waco and realize that it can happen to them.

If your family and your pets are all alive and your home hasn't been burned to the ground, then you are doing good so far.

The least painful way for you to proceed is probably to cop a plea to something. If you have no record and can get a deal where you are on probation for some period of time, after which the conviction is expunged, then that might be the least painful outcome. I would not wish to cop to a charge involving weapons. This might be allowed since the gun-grabbers themselves are reluctant to face the prospect of a higher court striking down their laws.

Then, leave the state of Kalifornia immediately and don't look back. As soon as I can convince my wife to do so, we will be gone. Even she is beginning to hate what the liberals are doing to the community which has been her home all her life.

You state: My attorney feels that due to the Constitutional nature of this case, it warrants going to trial. If that is the case, then your attorney should be the one to review and evaluate relevant cases. The US Supreme Court has refused to hear one such case which included the two important Constitutional issues. That is, does the Second Amendment protect the individual right to possess firearms, and does the prohibition against infringement of this right prevent each state from infringing the right?

Your attorney should be educating you regarding such cases. I would be very reluctant to be represented by an attorney who expected me to educate him. The media bias against guns will assure that you are never viewed by the public in a favorable light. You are obviously someone who intends to shoot up a school play yard, otherwise why would you need a rifle which is every bit as "powerful" as a machine gun?

From an idealistic viewpoint, I favor YOU going to trial to demonstrate the illegality of these laws. Budgets are strained everywhere in Kalifornia today and I would encourage you to make such a trial as lengthy and expensive to the county as possible. If it is possible to choose a jail term rather than a fine, this costs the government even more money.

Did you have to post bail? I don't know if I could ever do that if charged with an unConstitutional gun law. I would hope to have my case start costing the government from day one.

Keep us informed.

[GOP_1900AD]

Clearly you need to run all this past your lawyer... if you can get afadaffits from hunting or shooting buddies demonstrating the dates of purchase of the guns it would be a help. Also, how did you buy them, credit card, cash or check? If by check, a cancelled check is legally admissable as a "receipt." Get character witnesses particularly ones who can demonstrate gun safety and shooting acumen. Search again for the receipts; did you really forget to move them or accidentally throw them away, or, are they simply buried in a box somewhere in a garage, closet bottom or up in the rafters?

[teeman8r]

in an unjust society, you will find the rightous man in jail...

perhaps your lawyer can take federal action against the state of california using the rico statutes that vaguely define racketeering by any organization... one that strips individuals of unalienable rights should be open to such characterizations... especially one using hard knuckle tactics violating several constituttional staples as property confiscation, right to bear arms, due process and cruel and unusual punishment for pursuit of happiness...

good luck and press on... and make it public whenever you can... take it to the airwaves... papers and name names...

teeman

[.38sw]

You state: My attorney feels that due to the Constitutional nature of this case, it warrants going to trial.

And you need to ask yourself if you are interested in becoming a test case for constitutionality. With the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals having ruled that the RKBA is not an individual right, you are already at a disadvantage. You can always hope for jury nullification, but you don't know what kind of a jury you will have. A jury composed of MMMers won't be very helpful to you.

[Nebr FAL owner]

First the state doesn't care that you are person of good character! Second find out exactly what the state knows about your firearms .
Third did you admit to the state DA that you still had the firearms in question in the state of California After you were notified that they were contraband?
Fourth would you be required to notify govt.authorities if you intend to move your firearms out of state & out of reach of the politicians before you recieved notice from the govt. that it intends to butt rape you?
Fifth DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ASSUME THAT THE GOVT. IS TRYING TO BE FAIR OR IS MAKING A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO RESPECT YOUR RIGHTS!
Sixth if you have not admitted to the govt. that the guns in question are still in the state of California get them out of the state immediately. If need be disassemble them & ship them via UPS or Fed Ex to a trustworthy family relation out of state .
Seventh is your attorney if need be willing to accompany you on a trip taking your guns out of the state of California as insurance of sorts in case the govt. has you on a list of cars to be on the look out for.
Eighth If you have NOT admitted that your guns are still in the state GET THEM OUT ASAP DO NOT DELAY UNLESS YOU WANT TO SEE YOUR VALUED PROPERTY STOLEN BY THE STATE.

[Mulder]

Well, I'm not a lawyer, although I know enough about the Constitution to realize that you've done nothing wrong.

Here's a quote from Alexander Solzhenitsyn on how he wished his countrymen dealt with tyranny:

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand…The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

Freedom isn't Free.

[William Tell]

belmont_mark said: "Search again for the receipts; did you really forget to move them or accidentally throw them away, or, are they simply buried in a box somewhere in a garage, closet bottom or up in the rafters?"

This is an important point. And perhaps something about which pennysaver should say nothing.

There are and have been for some time few ways in which Kalifornians can purchase a firearm without leaving a paper trail that would be easy to trace. Even purchases at gun shows have had to go through FFLs for some years now.

If pennysaver is claiming that he obtained the rifles in Kalifornia and since 1990, then there may be more at issue than just the "assault weapons" infringements. He may have violated the gun registration infringements or the "prove you're not a criminal" infringement.

I once knew a guy who had a friend who heard about someone who may have bought an AR series rifle from a private party with no paperwork. It was a fine rifle, but this person soon realized that the threat of prosecution in no way was balanced by any satisfaction in owning the firearm. He arranged to return it to the party from which it was purchased and the rifle was disposed of out of state.

Anti-gunners have no idea how important this issue is to freedom-loving people, how damaging the criminal charges can be to a person, and the incredible motivation to leave Kalifornia which it creates.

The unintended consequences of Kalifornia's economic policies are just now starting to be felt. The unintended consequences of its social policies will come next. One of those consequences is that a successful professional such as myself wishes nothing but ill to this state and can barely wait for the day I can leave.