Fort Bragg soldier flees to Canada [Traitor alert!]

Independent Weekly ^ | February 11, 2004 | Patrick O'Neill

[BlueLancer]

"Who says liberals can't be good soldiers?"

I wholeheartedly agree. A soldier in my section is deploying with the 1st Cav to Iraq and you've never seen a better worker, a more enthusiastic individual with initiative and drive to succeed at his MOS, someone willing to listen to the advice of an old soldier (even though I am an ultra-conservative and "beyond saving" politically, in his eyes). His car is decorated with "Dean for President" bumper stickers and he's intelligent enough to know who to debate politics with (me, for one, because I don't hold his youth against him) and when to just do what he's told.

Service is service ... and I could never see him pulling a Kerry when it comes time for him to ETS.

[realpatriot71]

But I feel that if I had gone to Iraq I would be in a sense putting myself into a criminal enterprise and becoming a criminal because it's a war--or an act of aggression.

Personally, wether one agrees with this guy or not, I think it brings up an interesting point to ponder: when can a soldier, for moral/ethical reasons, refuse an order? How much "politics" is the soldier supposed to consider, if any? Does the soldier "check his thinking cap at the door" when he enters service? What, if any, situation(s) occurs, would it be justifiable to refuse service and run to Canada?

Hmmm - my father was a soldier, and I spent many years as an "army brat" but I have not served myself, so perhaps I do not have the correct perspective. Any thoughts?

[Constitution Day]

Great catch!

[dansangel]

From the other article: He enlisted on Jan. 17, 2001

Then he obviously doesn't watch the news nor read a newspaper. Lying jerk.

[BlueLancer]

You have the right to refuse an illegal order. That is the only out that you have .. and you'd better be ready to defend your position that it IS an illegal order if it's taken to a court-martial.

Other than that, your oath requires you to follow all legal orders. There are various ways to attempt to get out of the Army should a "moral/ethical" problem arise, but, again, you'd better be ready to give some really good reasons as to why these problems didn't exist when you signed on the dotted line and took your oath of enlistment.

[Constitution Day]

Be sure to post the second part of the article when it shows up. Thanks for this posting; this is the first I've heard of this sorry excuse for a soldier.

Oh, I definitely will. Normally I never leave this leftist rag but I'll keep an eye out.

I hadn't heard of this story either. What a little puke.

[Constitution Day]

Argh!

I meant "Normally I never READ this leftist rag"

[Modernman]

There are various ways to attempt to get out of the Army should a "moral/ethical" problem arise, but, again, you'd better be ready to give some really good reasons as to why these problems didn't exist when you signed on the dotted line and took your oath of enlistment.

In your experience, how would the military handle a situation where a recruit had no moral qualms about combat when he enlisted, but his views changed over time? (say, through a sincere religious conversion)

Leaving all politics aside, let's assume the soldier is now a sincere pacifist, opposed to war in all its forms.

[Chris Talk]

If he was a Quaker, a member of a "Friends' Meeting," why on earth did he go into the Military in the first place, and why would they TAKE him?

[jnarcus]

Actually IF this guy is really a practising Quaker (Friends) then he had a way out. The US Supreme COurt has on numerouse occassion allowed for a reapplication of CO status even after being in the Army...From the looks of his picture he is a dope smoking vegan who wishes to rec apture those "glorios" days of the 60s...I am glad he's gone but as most cowards do he ran rather than accept the consequences of his actions

[Poohbah]

A Catholic convert who also follows Buddhist teachings and enjoys the silent worship of Quakers,

This boy--he sure as hell ain't a man yet--needs to figure out what he is.

[Kadric]

Can you say absentee ballot?

[Moose4]

Exactly. Medics were some of the bravest soldiers in past wars! Somebody posted a story on here a while back about a WWII conscientious objector in the Pacific that I believe won a Medal of Honor as a medic...Desmond Doss, I think? Can somebody dig that up?

If this grabastic piece of amphibious poop thinks killing is wrong, but was moron enough to sign up for the Army anyway (hey, stupid, IT'S THE ARMY, THEY KILL PEOPLE), then a medic job would be right up his alley.

BTW...504th, isn't that part of the 101st? If so, you have to be sh*tting me that this guy would be Airborne (or Air Assault) and only now figure out that he was in the Army to kill people? The BS detector just pegged...this is political, not religious.

}:-)4

[BlueLancer]

Generally speaking, he would approach his chain of command with the problem, leading up to his company commander ... and maybe his battalion and brigade commanders. He would probably be referred to the Chaplains' Office (somewhat akin to a medical board to determine an injury) for a determination/assessment of his "moral qualms" or pacifist conversion.

Assuming this goes well, from his standpoint, he would usually be assigned to a non-combat support role, if retrainable. If the Army wants to keep his warm body in the ranks, he won't have any choice in this. They CAN hold him to his enlistment under any circumstances. If he refuses the non-combat position, then he's back at square one: disobeying a lawful order, and a court-martial.

Only in very very rare circumstances (and, I would hazard a guess, only in non-wartime) would a soldier be allowed to process out of the Army for such views and beliefs. I've seen it happen only once in 32 years of Navy/Army/DA civilian service, and that was in a non-wartime situation and he had married a woman who "converted" him to some religion that didn't approve of any sort of military service, and the Chaplains signed off on it. (I would also guess that his unit figured he wasn't worth the hassle of retraining either.)

[maica]

It is good for all that he is not going to Baghdad. The Quakers, Mennonites, CODEPINKs, Ansar al Islams, etc would all be vying for his attention. He would be lethal to genuine American soldiers and Iraqis trying to help their own country.

[jocon307]

"He's a Quaker!"

Yeah, he's as poor an excuse of a Quaker as he is of a solider.

[Aeronaut]

Hey Jeremy, read my tagline.

[clyde260]

I guess there's bound to be "one" in every crowd. At least we don't have to waste out money on him. Thanks for the shout.

[Former Proud Canadian]

You might be right technically about the death penalty but the authorities usually find ways around this. In practical terms, I think most of the northern border states do not have the death penalty (Michigan, Wisconsin, Washington, Maine etc.). So a killer would have to cross a lot of state lines and then cross the international border. If there was an alert out I think the vehicle would be flagged at customs and entry to Canada would be denied.

[Howlin]

I did not mean that disparagingly about Quakers; I should have been more careful with my choice of words to post.