Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THE WORLD’S GREATEST CREATION SCIENTISTS (VON BRAUN)
Creation-Evolution Headlines ^ | 1/1/2000 | Creation-Evolution Headlines

Posted on 02/07/2004 5:41:19 PM PST by bondserv

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-188 last
To: bondserv
My question to you Patrick is does Darwinian evolution necessitate the evidence of superior (intellectually) races?

The existence of human individuals necessitates the existence of intellectually superior individuals. This is because we're not identical. Any trait you can name will be present to varying degrees in different people. The issue of "superior races" is probably more a question about statistics than anything else. That's because a race doesn't have intelligence; individuals do. Murray's book, The Bell Curve, attempted to deal with this issue; but it's something I'm not qualified to evaluate. I'm not ducking; I really don't know the answers. I don't know what purpose is served by doing statistical studies of groups of people. Is my zip code intellectually superior to yours? My hair color? My race? And if it is, so what?

Again, does evolution lead us to nature’s inevitable result of "favored races"? Yes or no?

Not necessarily with humans. We're not exactly scrambling for scarce resources. We have loads of people who are far less fit than we are, yet they're surviving and thriving. So the answer to your question is "no," because we're so good at what we do that we can afford to be generous.

As for your remark about my "troop," I'm sure that, upon reflection, you will realize it was inappropriate. You might even acknowledge this.

181 posted on 02/12/2004 10:42:28 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry; bondserv
I am unsure if this relates to evolution or not.

The difference in intellect between individuals is obvious; that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with evolution though, does it?

The view of superior vs. inferior races has a certain dubious intellectual importance, perhaps it is fodder for the social sciences and selling books like The Bell Curve. It's not surprising, though, given the penchant for collectivist ideology of the last century-and-a-half.

More interesting to me is the question of cultures; are some superior to others? Why did the Egyptian culture last for thirty centuries and the Roman Empire last so long and why did they become "extinct" (to borrow a term)?

Ben Franklin gave us about two hundred years from the adoption of the Constitution. American culture is dissolving in the cheap acid of multiculturalism which is really more of an idea ABOUT culture, rather than a culture in itself.

I believe that all tradition, culture and religion seems to suffer under the omnivorous tyranny of ideology which has come to dominate all dialogue since Descartes.

I have come to recognize ideology as Original Sin writ large across the pages of history.
182 posted on 02/13/2004 6:32:59 AM PST by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 181 | View Replies]

To: TradicalRC
I am unsure if this relates to evolution or not.

Mostly "not," but I'll play with the ideas anyway:

The difference in intellect between individuals is obvious; that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with evolution though, does it?

No, not necessarily. Bright people tend to have bright kids. I can't evaluate the "nature vs. nurture" issue. This is more a matter of genetics than evolution, except to the extent that intelligence (at least partly a product of genetics) is a survival factor for the species. It no longer is, but in the very early days of our species, presumably the worst of the idiots didn't survive very long. Alas, their genes still pop up.

The view of superior vs. inferior races has a certain dubious intellectual importance, perhaps it is fodder for the social sciences and selling books like The Bell Curve. It's not surprising, though, given the penchant for collectivist ideology of the last century-and-a-half.

It's meaningless to me when someone claims that "group X is statistically smarter than group Y." The only value to books like Bell Curve might be that if group X is statistically doing worse in school, for example, than group Y, it could be useful to know that it's possibly not group Y's fault. But this is only significant in the context of government programs, etc. Without "great society" meddling, no one would need to know such statistics.

More interesting to me is the question of cultures; are some superior to others? Why did the Egyptian culture last for thirty centuries and the Roman Empire last so long and why did they become "extinct" (to borrow a term)?

There are definitely superior cultures. I won't even bother to argue with anyone who doesn't see this. Egypt is an interesting case. They lasted a very long time, and not because they respected "life, liberty, and property." It's been suggested that the combination of a military dictatorship, reinforced by a state-sponsored religion, plus a virtual monopoly over a scarce and vital resource (the Nile) gave them what they needed to survive so long. And Rome lasted only as long as they had military superiority.

Ben Franklin gave us about two hundred years from the adoption of the Constitution. American culture is dissolving in the cheap acid of multiculturalism which is really more of an idea ABOUT culture, rather than a culture in itself.

Don't get me started on this. Too depressing.

I believe that all tradition, culture and religion seems to suffer under the omnivorous tyranny of ideology which has come to dominate all dialogue since Descartes.

I suspect it started long before that. Too big a topic to get into. Wait for a philosophy thread to come along on this issue.

I have come to recognize ideology as Original Sin writ large across the pages of history.

Interesting notion. Any code of conduct that is not firmly grounded in reality can be a source of amazing problems.

183 posted on 02/13/2004 7:24:49 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 182 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Egypt is an interesting case. They lasted a very long time, and not because they respected "life, liberty, and property."

Survival implies nothing except adequacy. Superior and inferiority mean nothing in evolution unless there is differential selection going on.

184 posted on 02/13/2004 7:29:42 AM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: bondserv
As a youth, watching him on The World of Disney on those shows about space exploration and the ring-style space station, I was inspired to go into engineering, a life-long vocation.

They can throw out all of the crappy cliches they want, those "liberal elites", but Dr. Von Braun's memory will continue to rise above their petty carping.

185 posted on 02/13/2004 7:52:19 AM PST by Redleg Duke (tStir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Redleg Duke
As a youth, watching him on The World of Disney on those shows about space exploration and the ring-style space station, I was inspired to go into engineering, a life-long vocation.

They can throw out all of the crappy cliches they want, those "liberal elites", but Dr. Von Braun's memory will continue to rise above their petty carping.

As we allow the liberals a free hand at historical revisionism in our schools, the enemy of God creates more chaos and confusion, diverting our children from the truth.

Thank you for your personal response regarding Dr. Von Braun, it is as I remembered him as well. My Grandfather, a German with two of his four sons in the German army (my Dad the fourth son, was to young to fight in WWII), was murdered by the SS for refusing to Heil Hitler one to many times.

186 posted on 02/13/2004 11:08:05 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Howdy!

Thought you might find this interesting:

Integrating the genotype and phenotype in hominid paleontology

187 posted on 02/20/2004 7:45:53 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Yes, it's interesting. I assume you believe it helps you in some way.

I checked the full text (PDF file) of the article. It isn't anything a militant creationist would love. It's all old-earth evo and nothing but.

The author of the paper is investigating a promising synthesis of genetic and paleontological data. Note what she says on the rapid evolvability of "characteristically human" dental enamel.

Using a basic model (99), we estimated that the population mean for baboon molar enamel thickness could double in 250,000 years, or 50,000 generations, with a culling of fewer than 4 in 10,000 individuals per generation. Although this model is overly simplistic, it does demonstrate that enamel thickness could rapidly track dietary shifts through evolutionary time and that the potential for parallel evolution in this trait is high (i.e., enamel thickness is prone to homoplasy). Our quantitative genetic study of enamel thickness shows that this character is probably inappropriately weighted in many early hominid phylogenetic reconstructions. A developmental study of fossilized enamel growth suggests the same (100, 101).
Yes, she's saying that some people interpret some characters wrong. In particular, people don't allow for how fast bodily changes can track with environmental changes, some directly and independently, some pulled along by their genetic linkage to other traits which are the direct objects of natural selection.

You tend to think that every sour note is a victory for the anti-E crowd. This is far from true if your Morton's Demon would admit all the relevant data.

188 posted on 02/20/2004 8:33:12 AM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-188 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson