Dr. Walker's Deposition on Bone Scan -- 11/21/2003

[LadyDoc]

3/5/91 was the date of her "cardiac arrest"...3/5/91 was the date of the bone scan...hmmm.

Then you could argue that she might have sustained trauma.

The husband however could argue that the rib fractures were sustained from CPR, and the leg fracture from when she fell and he would ignore the back fracture, which is not a common one from beatings...he would claim she had osteoporosis from being bulemic, and that is why they saw these fractures.

A good lawyer would get a forensic pathologist to interpret the scans to see if they were consistent with a beating or trauma.

If the scans were done shortly after she was admitted to rehab, it makes one think she can't be "PVS" or vegetative.

Usually you do these scans because you have a patients (usually in a nursing home) showing a lot of pain, and you do the scan to see what's broken...but if she showed pain, she's not a "vegetable"...

[nicmarlo]

Anyway, osteoporosis does not explain how a healthy young woman ended up on the floor unconscious and brain-damaged.

Remember, silly, she fell on the floor because of her low potassium levels.....that's why MS got over a million...because the doctors who'd been treating her should have known this would happen........ (they got an answer for everthing.......but the truth).

[nicmarlo]

I remember reading the nurses gave Terri Ibuprophen (sp?) or something similar for when she was on her menses because during that time, she always moaned.....of course, that moaning was explained away as involuntary grunts, or something similar to that....cyn or KDubRN might have a better memory about that.

[CholeraJoe]

I did read it. Sounds like she got the h*ll beat out of her.

[Ohioan from Florida]

A good lawyer would get a forensic pathologist to interpret the scans to see if they were consistent with a beating or trauma.

Dr. Michael Baden, a reknowned forensic pathologist, said on Greta Van Susteran's show that it was consistent with some sort of trauma, one being a car accident that Terri was never in. He said it should have been investigated at the time of the scan, but alas, it wasn't.

FWIW, Terri "collapsed" in Feb. 1990. This bone scan was done 13 months after her collapse.

Usually you do these scans because you have a patients (usually in a nursing home) showing a lot of pain, and you do the scan to see what's broken...but if she showed pain, she's not a "vegetable"...

BINGO! Terri had these scans done because she moaned in pain when they did physical therapy on her that first year. They confirmed that she had broken bones, and, thus, she was responding. Voila! Terri's not PVS!

Maybe there could be a lawsuit filed against Mediplex for not determining that she was PVS when in their care (am I saying that right?)...because their treatment of her shows that she wasn't PVS during her stay with them. Maybe those doctors could be brought into this somehow...sort of a back door kind of method against Schiavo and Felos.

[gooleyman]

Any idea why this scan was done in the first place, 1 year later? If they had already concluded that she simply passed out and that was it, why did they go back a full year later and do these bone scans? Did someone acuse HINO of potential abuse at that time? Seems they wouldn't have done this if there weren't questions about this subject.

[T'wit]

Certainly the injuries have the scope of a beating, but how and when they were acquired is uncertain; there are anomalies.

Let's assume this damage is from the incident that left her brain-damaged (Feb. 25, 1990). The policeman who responded looked her over at the apartment and saw no sign of a beating on her face or head. I think the ER confirmed that she was not outwardly battered. There may have been a red mark on the back of her neck but not any "handprints" from attempted strangulation. The damage is not consistent with her "collapsing" / falling down from low K or something of that sort, and she's never had a heart attack.

Peripherally, we have a good deal of testimony that she and Michael had been fighting all that day (over her spending $80 to get her hair done), and a girl friend even warned her not to spend the night at home. Husband comes home from his late evening job at a restaurant, and an hour later, Terri is lying face down, unconscious, comatose and completely unresponsive.

KDubRN and at least one other nurse have done some serious investigation of Terri's blood tests. She should explain those results, not I; privately if need be. But I think I can say that the tests point to Terri fighting desperately for her life while her oxygen was cut off. We could then speculate that Michael got her down, got on her back to pin her, and either pushed her face hard into something soft enough not to leave marks or else pinched off the blood in her carotid artery. (He's a big man; she's tiny. If he put a lot of weight on her legs to hold them down, it would seem to account for the damage to her knees and femur; and perhaps he had a knee or a hand in her back to pin her, causing the damage there.) Presently, he called his father-in-law and said, "I'm sorry Bob, Terri is dead." He did not apply CPR or phone 911.

(Hmmm -- I hadn't thought of this: how would he know she was "dead" if, as he says, he was awakened by a "thud" and saw her lying on the floor?)

The bone scan / correlative radiographs were done a year and one week later. Is there anything you can see in Terri's traumas that is inconsistent with this scenario?

KDubRN, anything you'd like to add or correct?

In the absence of the original radiographs and med records -- and a forensic pathologist -- we have to play Hercule Poirot and use our gray cells for this. Looks to me very much like we have a crime here.

[m4629]

(Hmmm -- I hadn't thought of this: how would he know she was "dead" if, as he says, he was awakened by a "thud" and saw her lying on the floor?)

Of course Mikey knew. Just like Scott Peterson knew Laci was "Missing" when he first called her step father Ron.

[wisconsinconservative]

Thanks for posting this!

I agree whole heartedly that the results of these bone scans should have been investigated at the time they were done and most certainly should lead to a criminal investigation by the Attorney Generals office now.

But circumstances being what they are, will this deposition even matter? Has any one of the judges even bothered to look at the deposition? Greer has already said the first time Pat Anderson introduced the scans themselves into evidence (something to the effect of) "This is all very nice but the scans have nothing to do with Terri in 2003" I have a feeling this deposition will just be another sheet in the file.

I was wondering if the 2nd DCA is anywhere close to ruling on the matters before them? My theory is they are waiting for publicity to die down and support to lose it's momentum to issue a ruling. Much like the way some of the other courts have done. (i.e. the ruling to release the GAL from his duties. No one knew about it til days later)

I was also wondering if the Advocacy Center ever plans on releasing a report on their "supposed" investigation. Seems like they would have had plenty of time to investigate if indeed they were.

And lastly, is their anyone we should be writing other than the members of the FL senate and assembly encouraging them to support the new bill in the works?

[Mr. Silverback]

Terry Schiavo Info! Ignore the original post and see post 7 for a properly formatted version.

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[KDubRN]

When the police arrived, the EMS was already there. EMS contacted SPPD because of the unusual circumstances.

EMS is working on an unresponsive patient. The cops can't tell a thing. They can't see much. She's on her back. They see nothing but the front of her.

She was defibrillated several times. This is the critical nature of the thing. The cops look for broken furntiture, blood, stuff they do best. Nothing there, except an unresponsive female which they are furiously trying to revive.

I can assure you, when ER received that patient, she was vented, they started her on meds to elevate her blood pressure, as she had none to speak of. They gave her life saving treatments to keep her alive. Looking for bruises was not a priority. Should they have suspected DV? Sure. We do not know if anybody was contacted on a suspicion of DV, as those records are not available. They are sealed.

Keep in mind, the femur is a large bone. Direct impact or trauma is needed to fracture that bone. An auto accident will do it. Falling off a 2 story building will do it. Getting out of bed and falling to the floor will not.

I think Dr Walker's testimony speaks for itself. Pat Anderson did a marvelous job on that depo. The other side countered, Pat countered, the other side was clueless. From a medical perspective, ya gotta ask yourself what the abuse registry filed. I can guarantee any hospital would be held liable for injuries like these. Why didn't MS sue this facility for neglect, if she received these injuries while at this facility? Instead, he jerks her out of there post haste, transfers her somewhere else, and confiscates the bone scan results. We know he had those results, as we know how Pat Anderson came across them. And Felos was aware of them as well.

I think you did a good job T'wit, or Hercule. We'll make a doctor out of you yet.

[KDubRN]

I was also wondering if the Advocacy Center ever plans on releasing a report on their "supposed" investigation. Seems like they would have had plenty of time to investigate if indeed they were.


Just in case they were unable to run across a copy of the bone scan, Walker's Depo was sent to them. They are aware. They have the ability to speak with him.

[KDubRN]

And lastly, is their anyone we should be writing other than the members of the FL senate and assembly encouraging them to support the new bill in the works?

Jim King is the major Senator to hammer. He has already said he would not bring any bill to the floor this session that would infringe on his legacy.
Real frequent emails and snail mails and phone calls to him, please.

[m4629]

I agree whole heartedly that the results of these bone scans should have been investigated at the time they were done and most certainly should lead to a criminal investigation by the Attorney Generals office now.

When the time comes that this whole thing is blown wide open, our efforts would prove to be very beneficial to Terri. More than ever, I am confident we are on the right track. Need to generate more heat and attention. The other side is making some serious mistakes. The more moves they make, the more mistakes there are.

Just look at this loser deal with Swope. Did he realize before grilling Dr. Walker that he was about to shoot off his own foot? There was no way he could win at all. He could only come out a loser.

During the cross-exam, Swope had desparately tried to get Dr. Walker to agree to possibly Terri's bone injuries was a result of Rehab Therapy instead of blunt trauma. That was lame and futile. But let's suppose Swope won on that point. Then what? It would only look worse that Mikey didn't pursue another lawsuit against the Rehab Center for causing Terri's injuries back then. And it gets much worse that this information was hidden from the original Defendants at the malpractice trial with the help of Mikey's lawyers, since these are still unresolved questions in terms of shift of liability and possible criminal behavior. Further, the more they pop out those other experts' rehab evaluation reports, the more ridiculous it looks on Mikey for spending Rehab money back then on someone who suposedly had been in PVS all these years according to Felos.

It would be good to have the media go over all this stuff.

Keep talking and keep digging your own graves, Mikey & Felos. <----- Morons R Us

[T'wit]

>> Keep in mind, the femur is a large bone. Direct impact or trauma is needed to fracture that bone. An auto accident will do it. Falling off a 2 story building will do it. Getting out of bed and falling to the floor will not.

Hey, I was absolutely fair to Michael about this. Earlier in this thread I allowed the possibility that Terri had an automobile wreck in the bathroom, or even in the kitchen. People laughed at me. I don't understand it.

[T'wit]

>> I think you did a good job T'wit, or Hercule. We'll make a doctor out of you yet.

Coo! Thank you!

Maybe I could be a forensic parapathologist :-)

[T'wit]

> Jim King is the major Senator to hammer.

We should all remind him that his "Dr. Death Law" will ruin Florida's retirement industry. Nobody in his right mind will retire to Florida.

[T'wit]

> We do not know if anybody was contacted on a suspicion of DV, as those records are not available. They are sealed.

Time for the Advocacy Center to come a-knocking, with a subpoena if need be.

[T'wit]

Looks like I managed to shut the whole thread down. Bad breath? Body odor? The new tattoos?

[KDubRN]

Looks like I managed to shut the whole thread down. Bad breath? Body odor? The new tattoos?

Wonder why that is? Hmmmmmm