Posted on 01/30/2004 12:59:29 PM PST by Mr. Silverback
It won't last. Undermine the family, and all manner of social pathologies will explode.
In fact, whether both parents together support/care for/raise their children is more important than marriage per se.
"In fact"? You mean, "in rhetoric." First of all, your statement was normative, not factual, and secondly, you set up a false dichotomy between loving, unmarried parents and unloving, married ones. That's the same rhetorical game pro-gay marriage activists use. Marriage is the best means ever devised to ensure that people properly raise their children. Without marriage ... well, just walk though any black urban, American neighborhood.
Do you seriously believe that if fault divorce were re instituted that women would be ravaged by the court system? Do you think that might have some impact on the fact that women file more more than 2/3 of the divorces in the US? Are you afraid that women might not get custody in 90% of the custody cases if fault was put back into the system? Yes, lost of women get screwed over by the current system. So do a lot of men. What's the harm in actually taking into consideration who was responsible for breaking up the family? Let the chips fall where they may. Do you think that the one person in the marriage who either had an affair, or took up a cocaine habit, or assaulted their spouse, or took off with someone else, or abused the kids should not have that held against them in a divorce? Should someone be allowed to break up a family simply because the don't feel like they are "growing" or are feeling "unfulfilled?"
One party is being left out of the discussion: sin. All this "sin is as good as virtue" liberalism/libertarianism/libertinism does sin no favors. What fun can shacking up be, if it's sanctioned as the equal of wedlock? These muddlers not only hate virtue, they hate vice just as much!
You can make empty assertions all day, but don't expect anyone else to construe it as an argument. Since your "say so" isn't worth jack, I'll feel free to ignore you until you can assert something more substantial than your feelings on the matter.
Sheesh. You've got a brain, so make an argument that is compelling. I'm willing to listen if you can make a case, but all you've done is assert some ivory tower bullshit.
Marriage is the best means ever devised to ensure that people properly raise their children. Without marriage ... well, just walk though any black urban, American neighborhood.
I disagree. First off the benefits of marriage for children is lost when parents divorce because we have set up a system where children lose the parental support/care of one parent upon divoce.
Secondly, it sets up a caste system whereby we divide children into two groups, one group which are deserving of parental support/care of BOTH parents .. and one group which isn't. The expectations are that if the parents aren't married the child deserves less than the care/support of both parents.
This becomes a self-fulfilling cycle. The obligations of parents toward their children are dependent on marriage. This is the long legacy of the "bastard" class, which never wrought anything good for children.
In your example of the Black neighborhood, both parents aren't supporting and parenting their kids BECAUSE WE DON'T EXPECT THEM TO if they are not married. If we did expect and obligate parents to care for and support their kids irrespective of their marital status children would not be caught in a socially sanctioned caste system.
Don't run and hide, make a case. A rigorous, reasonably objective case for your position. I don't give a crap about anyone's opinion in the absence of a damn good reason that can stand on its own.
Thinking that I should listen to your feelings on the matter based on some personal belief of yours is pure liberalism. Your feelings and personal beliefs don't mean jack if you can't ground your position from the core principles of reality. "Marriage" is an arbitrary label. It means nothing to a real relationship. Any relationship that requires that affirmation to be strong is shallow ipso facto and not worth the paper you'll receive from the state for the effort.
What, precisely, does marriage bring to a strong committed relationship that isn't already there? Don't tell me what it means to you, tell me the pragmatic real world benefit it adds to a relationship that is otherwise indistinguishable other than having the official "marriage" tag provided by the state.
I know that we aren't afraid of that because we see eye to eye on that issue.
And as far as how fault worked 35 years ago, well, that was 35 years ago. Society walked away from it and we ended up with a 50%+ divorce rate. I submit that if we bring back fault we will have fewer divorces. I don't think we can get any worse than we are now.
It's late...I'll check this again in the morning.
But as one, you aren't very competent at it.
You did not address a single point I made in a coherent rigorous manner. I'm sure it makes it makes you feel all warm and cozy to shout platitudes while curled up in your pathetic little world, but from where I stand you simply look like another liberal wuss getting all hot and bothered over your "feelings". You are incapable of making a concrete argument, as though the world needs another slackjawed nobody's opinion on something they are profoundly ignorant of.
Post again when you get out of high school. We don't need people like you proving once again that not only are we descended from monkeys, but that we haven't fallen far from the tree.
Then why do you insist on talking to me? Are you lonely? I understand that for the low, low price of $1.95 per minute, there are phone numbers you can call with someone who really cares on the other end of the line.
I have no particular desire to talk to you either, as you aren't very interesting. There are plenty of intelligent people on this forum I could converse with, but I'm a sucker for hard cases.
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