Kiss the F-16s Goodbye: Pakistani article on why they should not accept F-16s (even IF offered)

Daily Times (Pakistan) ^ | Jan 30, 2004 | Ahmad Faruqui

[spetznaz]

Okaaaaay! Quick points. One, this article should note that the IF factor is pretty large. As in will the US offer the Pakistanis the remaining F-16s they paid for? Probably not (and in my opinion it should be not).

Two, even if they were offered the planes they would not amount to much. F-16As that the Pakistanis would be getting would be no match for a mixture of Israeli-made Phalcon 'Awacs' radar platforms and Russian-bought Su-30MKIs. And once you add the S-300 platforms India has then any thing that takes off from Pakistan is picked up by the Phalcon and Elta-Green radar systems and would be promptly brought down. Pakistan has no analogue for such systems.

Now, the article does have some points. IF I WAS A PAKISTANI (note the emphasis) I would prefer to have a source that would not potentially stick an embargo up my @$$! In this respect France would be perfect! Those guys will sell anything for ca$h! The US would not stand up to any Pakistani B.S, and virtually every other country that sells military hardware tends to stay away from Pakistan since selling to those fellas means not selling to India (and India is a much bigger market). Thus Pakis are left with China and France.

Anyways ...whatcha guys think?

[spetznaz]

Pakistan ping.

[rmlew]

Russia sells to China and India. Why wouldn't they sell to Pakistan.
Their are "indigenous" Chinese designs like the J/F-10 and Super F-7.
Of course, Pakistan would lose any bilateral engagement with India.

[spetznaz]

Because India has threatened not to buy any weapons from countries that sell to Pakistan. Now, a better example, in your case, would be France, since the French have sold planes (the Mirage 2000) to India and at the same time sold submarines (the Agosta, even with the MESMA system) to Pakistan. The Indians didn't like it, but nothing seemed to have happened from it (although the Indians did stop purchasing the M-2000).

Now, Russia depends a whole lot on sales to India for funds. It would not do anything to risk that. A good example on this would be how Germany wanted to sell some D/E subs to Taiwan, but after China made some major noise declined to do so.

[rmlew]

Why wouldn't china sell J-10's or F-7's?

[tcuoohjohn]

Rafale is highly competitive and could top the 29 in agility, turn rate, and acceleration and is a match for climb rate. 29 has a sprint advantage and longer legs but that is negligible factor for Pakistan.

Avionics?..beats the Ruskies..

[Frohickey]

Hmm...

If Pakistan can make their own nuclear device, couldn't they make their own fighter jets?

[11B3]

I don't know. It seems as though we need to stay on both sides of this 'conflict' for different reasons. We need to have Pak clean out its' border with Afghanistan, as well as continue to bring them towards being a truly democratic nation.

We need to keep India as a friend as a balance to China in the region, plus they are a huge market.

In reality, it's too bad that the two nations were formed to start with, rather than leaving it as one. Although a single nation would've had immense difficulties in dealing with the religious issues, it would've been more stable than the two nation system seen today.

[Willie Green]

Anyways ...whatcha guys think?

Well let's look at the fundamentals:

The Indian Air Force (IAF) operates 42 combat squadrons, comprised of some 800 aircraft.
The PAF operates 19 combat squadrons, comprised of some 350 aircraft.

I can't figure out why either of these nations are squandering their resources on so many planes.
So why don't we just keep our noses out of their squabble and let them duke it out on their own if that's what they want to do?

[VaBthang4]

Oi....Pakistan should never get them. I trust them about as much as I do the Saudis.

BTW: What's up Bro? :o)

[VaBthang4]

Rafale: Brutally expensive to own and operate.

[VaBthang4]

Yeah but if India were to attack, then the Muslim world would be stirred up against them...makes our job easier as Islam is then burning the candle at both ends [two front war].

Just thinking out loud.

[risk]

Pakistan sent pilots to fly against Israel in either one or both of the 1967 and 1973 wars to obliterate her from the planet.

[spetznaz]

And you know what is really weird ......India has the 2nd largest Muslim population after Indonesia!!!!!!!!! It has more muslims than Pakistan, than Saudi Arabia, than etc etc etc. India's president is Muslim, its PM is Hindu, and its minister of Defence is Christian!

Interesting

[spetznaz]

I'm fine ......i was actually wondering what happened to you. Actually i was kinda worried you were activated and sent to Iraq or something (i know you were in the corp, but i am unsure what your active status currently is). Otherwise i am cool .....just working and pursuing my masters.

And in case you are wondering ....i am NOT about to post pictures of some 'super-duper hyper-space laser-armed bazooka-ardorned stealth RUSSIAN fighter-jet from the fourth dimension.' LOL

Hope you are doing fine ....

[VaBthang4]

HAHAHA....I was looking for the pictures. :o)

No, they dont want me over there...though I wouldnt mind.

[tcuoohjohn]

yeah...I conveniently neglected to mention the cost thingy didn't I?

Good tools cost good money.

[Spandau]

If I were Pakistan, I would move on and deal with Russia or France, who as you say will sell anything for cash (except to Israel).

[BlazingArizona]

We need to keep India as a friend as a balance to China in the region, plus they are a huge market.

Besides which, if India were invaded, every credit card number and bank account record in America would fall into the invaders' hands.

[spetznaz]

The thing is the Russians and the Israelis are dealing with India. They will not help the Pakistanis, and for good reason. After all Russia needs a strong India to act as a buffer to China (which is the same reason that the US is starting to cement close relations with India), and the Israelis need a strong nation within close proximity to it.

Pakistan only has France as its source for 'western' arms (and China to meet the rest).