CPAC 2004: ALAN KEYES' SPEECH

Renew America website ^ | January 24, 2004 | Dr. Alan Keyes

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..I learned long ago that you can never please a fool...

Right. You must be very unhappy, then?

[Scenic Sounds]

I cited Everson because your post 155 suggested that you couldn't understand how the First Amendment's establishment clause could possibly be applied to Judge Moore inasmuch as the First Amendment specifically limits only the Congress. I wanted you to read Everson so that you would understand that, because of the Fourteenth Amendment, states (like Alabama) are now required to comply with the establishment clause of the First Amendment. You don't need to go any further than the beginning of the third paragraph of the Everson opinion to discover that principle:

"The New Jersey statute is challenged as a 'law respecting an establishment of religion.' The First Amendment, as made applicable to the states by the Fourteenth, commands that a state 'shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . .'

I cited the Boy Scout case to show you that judges from all ideological backgrounds (including Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas) accept the principle that, because of the Fourteenth Amendment, states are required to comply with the First Amendment. And that's why Judge Moore (acting in his official capacity as an officer of the state) was required to comply with the First Amendment's establishment clause.

[tpaine]

Why do you call the 14th an artifice?

[tpaine]

No need, -- he's posting as a hon -ey. Hint hint.

[tcuoohjohn]

Egad... Give Me Thomas Sowell or Hayek. Micheal Savage is personality disorder masquerading as a political opinion. I don't think you find any meaningful discussion on talk radio. Merely contrived pissing matches by folks striving for ratings rather wisdom. Most of the folks I enjoy listening to could never cut it on talk radio. George Will, Safire, Krauthammer, Lowry, Buckley et al.. much too sedate and reasoned. Not enough screaming and desk pounding for your taste I suspect.

[Amelia]

...and has been since Jan 3 of this year?

[TigersEye]

The only thing it does is forbid Congress from establishing a national church.

I fully agree with that but don't you think it also covers the making of laws that impinge on the order of already established religions? I think 'respecting an establishment of religion' carries both meanings simultaneously.

What is amazing as all get out is that people can read 'Congress shall make no law' and find that to somehow cover all associations of religion and government. I suppose when a masochist reads "love thy neighbor as you love thyself" he could take that as meaning 'go next door and beat the crap out of Fred.'???

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...the bourbon, while increasing my verbal creativity reduces my digital dexterity...

The bourbon makes you think your creativity's increasing, John. We're noticing quite the reverse, and I think you ought to call it a night.

Oh.

You have.

[tpaine]

¸¸EternalVigilance wrote:

The first Amendment is so simple, and so clear, on the issue of religious expression. The only thing it does is forbid Congress from establishing a national church.

______________________________________


Try reading some posts besides your own. We've discussed this exact point for half of this thread.

The establishment clause applies to all levels of government. Read this:


Replies
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1067421/replies?comment=217

[TigersEye]

...commands that a state 'shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

And that's where it falls flat in the Moore case. No law was made. No law at all. None, zip, nada ... ad infinitum. The Amendments may have to apply to the State's but that doesn't change their wording or intent. 'Congress shall make no law ...' State law, federal law. State congress, U.S. Congress. In either jurisdiction it is only the legislative body that makes law and only that is referred to in the 1st. Congress and law.

[tpaine]

If you say so hon...

[tcuoohjohn]

Alas...Halcyon days of youth. Would that I were that young again. No..an aging codger of 55 here. I figured you would have deduced that by my conservative reading choices. Apparently not.

Pity...Deduction is a lost art among the young.

[Amelia]

Yes it was. He was denied his free exercise of religion and free speech.

If Judge Moore were Buddhist, would you support his right to put a statue of Buddha in the lobby of the Federal courthouse?

[tcuoohjohn]

Where did that Amelia lady go?....Lovely name Amelia.

[TigersEye]

Why do you call the 14th an artifice?

That was probably a poor choice of words. I meant that it was unnecessary. It was contrived to patch a hole. The lack of understanding or refusal to recognize that the U.S. Constitution superceded the States in authority regarding individual rights from its inception. The 10th should have been clear enough except for the avarice of those who wanted to find a way around recognizing some folks individual rights.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..if Judge Moore were Buddhist, would you support his right to put a statue of Buddha in the lobby of the Federal courthouse?...

Only if America was Tibet.

[tpaine]

Your record is stuck..

Moore took an oath to honor the Constitution & BOR's..

His offical action violated the 1st by favoring one religion over others.

[Scenic Sounds]

Yes it was. He was denied his free exercise of religion and free speech.

Well, I'm sure he argued that, but he lost that case. I'm sure that somewhere out there on the internet you can find the court's specific findings of fact on these issues.

You know, you're not required to agree with the way judges interpret the Constitution. As a citizen, your views are just as important as the contrary views of all of these judges, Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas, included.

But, the judges are the judges and it's become sort of traditional in this country to comply with court orders. That's another problem that Judge Moore ran into and that's why the State of Alabama decided to pull him in the late innings. ;-)

[EternalVigilance]

Thank you.

Alan has set a number of standards that we should all be trying to emulate, both in terms of commitment and of service.

If there were a million folks who even approached his ability to communicate the principles of conservatism, this republic would be well on the way to renewal.

And think of all the antacid that would have to be consumed by liberals! ;-)

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..where did that Amelia lady go?....Lovely name Amelia...

I'll say one thing to your credit- your disposition's improving, with every drink. After you've had a couple more we'll probably be the best of mates. :)