Let me see if I have this straight...

Yahoo News ^

[Little Ray]

We need to limit the number of lawyers our schools put out and award grants, subsidies, etc., based on the number or engineers and scientists a school graduates.

[spunkets]

"Most of IBM's 315,000 employees are today already overseas. But now IBM is planning to move an additional 4,700 programing jobs offshore."

Container freight?

"Where will they learn the skills to do the jobs? Do you really think that companies will hire someone that has no clue how to do a job, just because they know how to "operate in the world"?"

It's the individual that operates in the world and their destiny is their responsibility, not employers, or the govm't. They can either learn skills that enable them to know, understand and do many things, or limit themselves. No one owes others a job and a guaranteed income. Barring govm't interfere, high pay occurs when supply lags demand. When supply leads demand in a free market wages drop. That's a reality college educated folks should know and understand well. When they fail to apply it to their own situation, they might find themselves a victim of economic reality.

"Another way to say that jobs are going out of the country and to foriegners (illegal or legal)."

Analyzing reality with misnomers and falsehoods does not promote understanding. The US promotes Freedom inside and outside it's borders. That requires free market principles be adhered to regardless of border.

[looscnnn]

"Container freight?"

What the heck is that supposed to mean? Is that your way of say oh well? Would you say the same if it was your job?

"It's the individual that operates in the world and their destiny is their responsibility, not employers, or the govm't. They can either learn skills that enable them to know, understand and do many things, or limit themselves."

Again I ask, where will they learn the skills to do the jobs and do you really think that companies will hire someone that has no clue how to do a job, just because they know how to "operate in the world"?

[TankerKC]

I'll bet that once a major corp (and I'd bet on a bank) has an OOOPS! and finds a Chinese, Pakistani or Russian "replacement worker" doing something nasty that either funds terrorism, drug sales or launders money with customer accounts or has a major security breach, THEN you will see a rethinking of the whole issue of shipping wrk overseas.

Just curious...what would the reaction be if there was a mojor OOOPS! and an American worker caused it?

[spunkets]

"Would you say the same if it was your job?"

You missed the point. Jobs can't be imported, or exported. The idea that they can be is ridiculous. My job and pay rests on my ability to meet the requirements of demand in the presence of the available supply. I recognize that.

"Again I ask, where will they learn the skills to do the jobs and do you really think that companies will hire someone that has no clue how to do a job, just because they know how to "operate in the world"?"

The point is that regardless of how skills are aquired, the acquisition of those skills does not guarantee income, or even a job. If there are a million rocket scientists and only a hundred job openings, the pay will be low. Since the brain power and skill of a rocket scientist is reported to be high, there will be those with understanding that are versatile enough by choice to compete in another field, or create their own niche. The same applies regardless of skill level.

[Grit]

OK, let me see if I have this straight...

all of the sudden we are worried that there are not enough Americans enrolling in the Computer Science and Engineering fields of study in college...

Perhaps if there was an incentive to enter these fields,like the possibility of actually obtaining a job after college, then maybe we wouldn't be facing this so called labor shortage.

Perhaps the chicken and egg are reversed in your argument.

[blowfish]

> but another major factor in the outsourcing to India movement is that there are few Ameicans who are capable of producing quality software.

This is flat-out nonsense.
Companies like IBM are *laying off* engineers so that they can more the jobs overseas and (they hope) save $$$. Are you saying all these laid-off engineers are worse than their Indian counterparts? They were apparently good enough to work at IBM...

[OldFriend]

My son got a far better education in our public high school than our daughter got at her private school.

When he entered Carnegie Mellon he placed out of calculus, biology, and english thanks to doing well on the AP courses. Some students from a pretigious NJ private school were far behind in those subjects.

Our daughter was in private school for cultural issues just three years later. Drugs, violence, abortions, sexual agenda from the school 'health' services, etc.

[DustyMoment]

"No one is shipping the jobs offshore. The demand for the services is being met by capable folks charging less. There is no real connection of pay with job duty. The pay scale is based on supply and demand."

Really!!??

Then, I guess you can explain why nearly a million high-tech jobs that have been lost during the recent Clinton recession have been shipped offshore and are expected to be followed by up to 2 - 3 million more in the next 3 - 5 years. I guess you can explain why American companies are having to pay as much as 50% to 66% of the original development costs to FIX the products being developed by these "capable folks charging less."

I guess you can explain why Dell Computer cancelled the move of its Miami call center to India after receiving a flood of phone calls from customers complaining about the lack of quality of technical service and inability to understand those individuals being paid less to read scripts rather than actually resolve problems based on their own knowledge and experience.

"College should be a place where students learn how to think, do and operate in the world. It's not a place to learn fixed job skills to exist in some theoretical high paying niche forever. I don't see the point in spending all that money on college when the students expect other folks to provide them with high paying niches. The point of going to college is to enable the student to creat those niches for himself."

Did you even think about that paragraph before you wrote it? College costs money, whether it is to teach people to think or to provide the necessary skills to obtain good, high-paying stable careers. If American business demands a better educated workforce, then refuses to pay an equivalent wage, what is the message they are sending to tomorrow's employees? Why should anyone fork over $20,000 or better for an undergraduate degree so they can have the thrill of a job that pays between $7 - $12 per hour so they can compete with people in another part of the world where the cost of living (as is the quality of life) is substantially lower? We all know you get what you pay for. Do you want to fly in an airplane designed by an aeronautical engineer earning $10/hour with a college loan of $35,000 and no chance to ever own his own home, or would you rather fly in an aircraft designed by an aeronautical engineer making $30/hour?

Ya see, the devil's in the details.

[looscnnn]

"Jobs can't be imported, or exported."

Really, so those US programmers at IBM did not lose their jobs and those positions were not given to workers in India? That consititues exporting a job.

"My job and pay rests on my ability to meet the requirements of demand in the presence of the available supply."

So if you do not meet this demand, your salary decreases at your job? I assume you work on commision then.

"The point is that regardless of how skills are aquired, the acquisition of those skills does not guarantee income, or even a job. If there are a million rocket scientists and only a hundred job openings, the pay will be low. Since the brain power and skill of a rocket scientist is reported to be high, there will be those with understanding that are versatile enough by choice to compete in another field, or create their own niche. The same applies regardless of skill level."

If you have 5 people vying for a position, employers look for the "most bang for the buck". That means that they will hire someone that knows what they are doing for a couple dollars/hr more that someone that has no clue what they are doing. Also, how skills are aquired is relevant if you say that colleges should not be used for teaching job skills.

[Grit]

Would you say the same if it was your job?

Not directed at me, but YES!

I cannot believe the union mentality that is invading the high-tech fields. "My job is sacred! It is my God given right to have the job I want!" That has never been true and is so much BS.

[kcvl]

"what do we tell our kids to study in college in order for them to get a good job with a stable career"

Nuclear medicine including pharmacy, x-ray, etc.

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* Nuclear Pharmacist, Detroit, MI
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Hicksville, NY
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Milford, CT
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Beltsville, MD
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Dayton, OH
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Orlando, FL
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Cleveland, OH
* Nuclear Pharmacist, San Francisco, CA (2)
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Los Angeles, CA
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Crestwood, IL
* Nuclear Pharmacist, Denver, CO

Nuclear pharmacy is a specialty area of pharmacy practice dedicated to the compounding and dispensing of radioactive materials for use in nuclear imaging and nuclear medical procedures. These procedures use small amounts of radioactive material for the safe diagnosis, treatment and monitoring of disease. Diagnostic nuclear imaging is used principally for bone, brain, kidney, liver, gall bladder, heart, lung and infection assessment.

Diagnostic nuclear imaging offers a safe, reliable and cost-effective alternative to invasive diagnostic procedures and surgery. In these imaging procedures, an imaging camera scans a patient who has swallowed, inhaled or been injected with one of the prepared radiopharmaceutical compounds. These compounds concentrate in the particular organ or tissues to be examined. The imaging camera makes a computer-generated, full-motion video recording of the area in which the radiotracers have concentrated and this recording allows physicians to detect irregularities in that targeted area. Nuclear imaging is unique in that it documents organ structure and function, in contrast to other diagnostic methods, which only document the organ structure.

Typical salaries for Nuclear Pharmacists can range from $80,000/year to $100,000/year ($40.00/hour to $50.00/hour). This is dependant on location, company and experience.

[kcvl]

"Why do so many medical professionals in America have names I cannot pronounce?"

The ones that I know are fantastic doctors who are dedicated to caring for their patients.

[IYAAYAS]

I'm in my mid 30's, about a year ago my lovely,educated and well paid wife and I decided that after years of me taking night classes we could afford to send me to school full time. We paid all of our debt, sold our house (six figure profit :) ) and moved into an apartment. I will start a BSEE/MSCE program this summer as a junior. I will graduate with honors, and I will get a great job when I graduate. How do I know these things? Easy, I know myself.

I refuse to believe the situation for engineers in this country is as bad as some of you make it out to be.

Any RF/microwave EE's have any career advice, besides "don't"? Will 5+ years experiance as an engineering technician count when I get my degree, if you were doing the hiring?

[looscnnn]

How long before the H1 & L1 visas and immigrants (illegal and legals) start to work for peanuts for these jobs? Where would someone go to learn to do this, as one person in this thread believes that colleges should not be used to teach job skills. Also, those salaries will only go down as more and more people move to those jobs, supply of workers outpaces demand for them.

[looscnnn]

That is not what I have a problem with. My problem is that if they were not doing the job right, then fire them and hire new ones. They can rehire locally. Instead they choose to move almost all jobs out of the country. I have no problem with a company making money, but how about cutting the pay of the CEO, CFO, etc. to keep costs down. How many of the US jobs could have been retained if they cut the CEO, CFO, etc. salaries by 10%? I would guess that they could have kept a bunch and the upper management still would be paid well.

We talk about the economy getting better, but how can it continue if jobs are sent out of the country or if given to visa holders and other immigrants? People cannot continue to spend money if they lose jobs. This is not just about protecting jobs, but helping keep the economy growing. The more people that are unemployed, the more we have to pay for with our tax dollars.

[looscnnn]

The experience will count along side your degree. Knowing yourself is great when you are in control of things, but does not mean a thing when others are in control. In the case of getting hired after graduation, who is in control? The employers are in control, they could easily hire a H1 or L1 visa worker for 1/2 what they would pay you. Keep that in mind as you look for jobs and find pay scales less than what you were looking for.

[spunkets]

"Then, I guess you can explain why nearly a million high-tech jobs that have been lost during the recent Clinton recession have been shipped offshore and are expected to be followed by up to 2 - 3 million more in the next 3 - 5 years."

A job is a business arrangement, it has no substance and can't be shipped anywhere. The conditions of that arrangement are governed by supply and demand and the parties grasp and understanding of reality.

"I guess you can explain why American companies are having to pay as much as 50% to 66% of the original development costs to FIX the products being developed by these "capable folks charging less.""

The question involves an etherial generalizaiton that renders a specific answer impossible. However, just as employees make their own decisions, companies will also. Acting on a decision does not guarantee an outcome, regardless of national origin. Whatever the outcome, the responsibility belongs to the decision maker and actor. Success does not depend on capable folks charging more either.

"I guess you can explain why Dell Computer cancelled the move of its Miami call center to India after receiving a flood of phone calls from customers complaining about the lack of quality of technical service and inability to understand those individuals being paid less to read scripts rather than actually resolve problems based on their own knowledge and experience."

LOL! It's a low cost commodity computer. Dell customer service always sucked. It was always a waste of time to wait hours to hear from someone that barely knew where to plug in a keyboard. The only worthwhile feature of the customer service was the GE onsite service and their quick action in getting you parts when they were presented with a diagnosis.

" College costs money, whether it is to teach people to think or to provide the necessary skills to obtain good, high-paying stable careers."

Thinking comes first. W/o that all else is futile and the pay will be low. Stability and success also depends on it.

"If American business demands a better educated workforce, then refuses to pay an equivalent wage, what is the message they are sending to tomorrow's employees?"

Amazing. First of all the business op[eration creates a demand and advertises. Then the supply of folks offering to fill that demand shows up. Each individual in the supply gives their qual., desires, compensation requirements...ect. The employer chooses to make an offer to one of them and gets an answer. It goes that way until the demand is filled. No where in there is an equivalent wage for better anything. If there's a gazillion rocket scientists and 2 openings, both those guys are getting minimum wage.

"Why should anyone fork over $20,000 or better for an undergraduate degree so they can have the thrill of a job that pays between $7 - $12 per hour...

Beats me. The real question that should be asked is why does anyone pay that much to a place that will let them graduate holding the notion that the world owes them a pay scale?

"We all know you get what you pay for.

The implication here is that quality is directly proportional to sale price, or production cost. It's not. " Do you want to fly in an airplane designed by an aeronautical engineer earning $10/hour with a college loan of $35,000 and no chance to ever own his own home, or would you rather fly in an aircraft designed by an aeronautical engineer making $30/hour?

The logic and premises underlying this question are faulty, so there is no answer.

[kcvl]

Your local pharmacy school, local college for radiology techs or contact one of these companies for more information...(use GOOGLE for telephone or email addresses)


Nuclear Pharmacies by Company/Practice Site:

Syncor & CPSI now Cardinal Health
Tyco Healthcare / Mallinckrodt
Amersham Health
Geodax Technology, Inc.
Eastern Isotopes, Inc.
Independent Pharmacies
Institutional Practice
PETNet

or

http://www.comphealth.com/website/searchjobs/nuclearmedicinetechjobs.html

Diagnostic Imaging Online
May 29, 2003


Demand for techs soars, salaries follow

A long streak of increases in both demand and salaries has favored radiologists. Imaging technologists are following suit, according to a recent survey conducted by Allied Consulting in Dallas.

The average salary for a radiologic technologist grew from $42,000 in 2000 to $47,000 in 2002. The average high-end salary grew from $52,000 in 2000 to $66,000 in 2002. Nuclear medicine technologists and sonographers enjoyed an average increase in high-end salary of about $15,000 between 2000 and 2002.

Imaging technology advancements in the past decade drastically increased the number of CT, MRI, ultrasound, nuclear medicine, and mammography studies. This, in turn, created a specialized demand for imaging services that need certified operators. The general radiology technologist is a thing of the past, said John Hawkins, Allied Consulting's vice president. Unfortunately, not enough training programs are available to support the demand for technologists.

One way the radiology community is addressing the shortage of both radiologists and technologists is through the concept of the supertech -- physician extenders who perform many ancillary radiological duties, thereby freeing up the doctors to read and interpret more films.

Radiology practitioner assistants command between $60,000 and $105,000 annually, twice the salary of RTs, according to Jane Van Valkenburg, Ph.D., director of the RPA program at Weber State University in Ogden, UT. The American College of Radiology expects the salary of its newly created version of the supertech -- the radiology assistant -- to be comparable to that of the RPA.

-- By Harold Abella

[spunkets]

"That consititues exporting a job."

It constitutes free market business association. Nothing was exported. You see exports have a price and their is no price on a job. The word export is used by folks to obfuscate the facts of the matter to make it look like a theft and give away program.

"So if you do not meet this demand, your salary decreases at your job?"

Yes, it decreases to zero and someone in supply comes in as a replacement.

"employers look for the "most bang for the buck""

Generally that's wise, but not an absolute. Some go cheap as they can and others spend unlimited amounts, because they think bang is proportional to the price.

"if you say that colleges should not be used for teaching job skills.

That's not what I said. The point is that the student should know and understand the job market first and well enough to project and evaluate future scenarios. Deep down inside the colleges know this, but they are selling a product. Buyer beware.