Agents told to be silent on details of border plan

Detroit Free Press ^ | January 21, 2004 | TAMARA AUDI

[Cold Heat]

He’s wanted this amnesty for 3 years; he’ll get it one way or another.

No way he would EO this issue.

He would EO a hole in the law or something that needed a patch with no time to legislate, but this would not qualify.

You seriously underrate the man.

What he needs to do is EO the terminations of everyone in the "old INS" and Dept. of state. EO the paperwork to dissolve the unions protecting the Clinton holdovers and start over from scratch, rehiring only those that were re-vetted and checked for political connections.

That EO I could support.

[Marine Inspector]

He would EO a hole in the law or something that needed a patch with no time to legislate

LOL, you might want to go and look at his over 100 EO's. Including the pay raise he gave some friends in the Federal Government.

Marine Inspector

[Cold Heat]

Including the pay raise he gave some friends in the Federal Government.

I have not studied the matter.

If you know that he did something wrong and without justification, lets have it!

[swampfox98]

What Is Considered An Illegal Activity Under Immigration Law?

In George Bush's world "illegal activity" means anyone who is against his amnesty plan. We have no Immigration policy or law, thanks to our traitorous politicians on both sides of the isle. They are hell bent to let in as many as can come, and force people who don't agree to pay the bills and shut up about it. I'd like to ask this question, who made George Bush King?

Two hundred years America has remained a free country. Three years of George Bush and it has become a puss hole.

[Marine Inspector]

If you know that he did something wrong and without justification, lets have it!

There you go jumping to conclusions again. I never stated he did anything wrong. An E.O. is a perfectly legitimate action by a sitting President.

You stated: “He would EO a hole in the law or something that needed a patch with no time to legislate”.

I just pointed out that you assumption of what the President would E.O. is wrong. He is more than willing to E.O. anything he wants, including giving pay raises to certain federal employees. And if he is willing to give a pay raise to certain federal employees, through an E.O., then I’m sure he’s willing to give visas to illegal aliens, through an E.O.

Marine Inspector

[FITZ]

As for the EO, yes it would be very easy to EO an amnesty.

I think with enough pressure from Vicente Fox and the corrupt governors of Mexico --- it would happen.

[Cold Heat]

There you go jumping to conclusions again.

A common FReeper mistake.

One tries to read the tone of the statement in order to get a feel for the persons un-written words.

Your tone leads me to mistaken assumptions perhaps.

If that is true, then "my bad".

[Cold Heat]

And if he is willing to give a pay raise to certain federal employees, through an E.O., then I’m sure he’s willing to give visas to illegal aliens, through an E.O.

I suppose I should have stated that as a result of not knowing the reasons for these raises, I cannot infer that he would EO anything.

I am not at all convinced that he would step out on a limb for a EO regarding immigration, which is very much the purview of congress to deal with.

Correcting a un-equal or deficiency in payroll rates in order to achieve employee retention is a technical fix, not a policy change as immigration would be.

[Marine Inspector]

Your tone leads me to mistaken assumptions perhaps.

If that is true, then "my bad".

I’ll endeavor to ensure my tone does not lead you to mistaken assumptions.

The bottom line is, Bush wants this amnesty / guest worker program badly. He promised it to Fox before 9/11 and he intends to make good on that promise. I’m quite sure he wants Congress to pass it, but if it takes and E.O. at the end of his term, them I think he would do it.

Marine Inspector

[sandydipper]

If you wasn't born here - get your buttt out. Take your bizarre customs with you - go back to your mud hut and squirt babies in the sand.

[Sabertooth]

You seriously underrate the man.

Since Marine Inspector is one who, like myself, has warned for a few years that President Bush was going to propose an Amnesty for Illegals, while those who've considered themselves most loyal to the President ignored the warnings and now split hairs to pretend his proposal isn't Amnesty, you might want to qualify that statement a little.

[TigersEye]

The memo, prepared by a public affairs officer at Customs and Border Protection headquarters in Washington, D.C., also gives these instructions: "Do not speculate about the program. Do not provide statistics on apprehension spikes or past amnesty data."

Translation: "We can't run government efficiently unless we keep the public in the dark and feed them BS so keep what you know to yourself."

[Cold Heat]

while those who've considered themselves most loyal to the President ignored the warnings and now split hairs to pretend his proposal isn't Amnesty, you might want to qualify that statement a little.

Sure!

I agreed with him then and I do now.

I believe that this problem can be addressed with this approach and that other approaches have failed.

The fact is, that this that I do not view the Bush proposal as amnesty and I believe that as the details are worked out, the Mexicans will not either.

The combination of tightened borders and regulation of the illegal population through vetted permits and deportations for those who do not comply will do a variety of things that are all positive controls on current and future illegal employment.

It will do this over time and not encourage further illegal crossings when understood and implemented.

The numbers of jobs available will likely be reduced initially, causing a net reduction in illegal behavior. As the program matures, the ability to come for work legally and cross the border without worry will stop the illegal attempts as there will be little work available for anyone undocumented.

Biometrics should defeat the majority of the illegal document trade. More may be needed to defeat it outright.

Sure, Bush ran on this policy. It is no surprise to me.

We differ on the expected results of this program, as I see it.

[FITZ]

If Bush wasn't meeting with Vicente Fox and the Mexican leaders making all these plans, I think we'd be more trustful. Foreign leaders should have no say-so at all over American laws but they are being given far too much. Vicente Fox does not intend to have these people return to Mexico to live --- he wants them here permanently and many more to be heading over.

[Cold Heat]

I think Bush was trying to do him a favor regarding Fox's political situation.

He did it at a great cost to his own political capital.

I agree that it caused much acid indigestion with conservatives.

It remains to be seen, if it was a mistake.

[FITZ]

Maybe but Fox's political situation is bad just because he's done nothing to reform Mexico. His only agenda seems to be getting rid of as many of the Mexican citizens as possible --- he needs to do something more than that. Look at Ciudad Juarez --- a terrible and skyrocketing murder rate --- what has Fox done about that?

[Sabertooth]

I believe that this problem can be addressed with this approach and that other approaches have failed.

The only approach that's been tried since the last Amnesty failed has been malfeasance. That goes for Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, and Bush 43.

The fact is, that this that I do not view the Bush proposal as amnesty and I believe that as the details are worked out, the Mexicans will not either.

And the Daschle-Hagel Amnesty isn't an Amnesty.
And the McCain-Kolbe-Flake Amnesty isn't an Amnesty.
And the Cornyn Amnesty isn't an Amnesty...

And "there is not sexual relationship..."
And "I did not have sexual relations with that woman..."
And it all "depends on what the definition of is is..."

The continuing spin of everyone pretending that it's not an Amnesty to legalize Illegals does serious harm to those engaging in it.

We differ on the expected results of this program, as I see it.

Most definitely. I expect the results would be the same as the last Amnesty.

Fortunately, most Americans know an Amnesty when they see one, and we will defeat the one proposed by President Bush, and every other Amnesty proposed by the open-borders elites in Washington.

[FITZ]

I think Fox could be helped more if Bush turned around and told him that millions of his citizens would not be coming here and it's time to get to work on those reforms. Chop-chop. Fox could turn around and tell the Mexican Congress that if they want to avoid the next Mexican Revolution --- with visions of Villistas burning their mansions down --- that it's time for reforms.

[riri]

The combination of tightened borders and regulation of the illegal population through vetted permits and deportations for those who do not comply will do a variety of things that are all positive controls on current and future illegal employment

If this where the plan would not some of these intentions be put forth? Some hint of them? There has not been one word to indicate this is the plan.

The silense regarding this matter only means one thing. Bush has said "I can not or will not stop this invasion". This is the first step in a completely open border. Count on it.

[Cold Heat]

Some hint of them?

He hinted at tighter border controls. He hinted at a time certain and other references.

I followed the bread crumbs and noticed that the major effect of such a plan, via the application for a worker permit would most definitely target the illegal employer.

I tried to be open minded and did not dismiss what was said outright.

The fact is, that it is only a proposal and some guidelines.

The entire thing is up to congress to write and debate.

I see nothing happening this year. It would be doubtful in my opinion that anything could be agreed on before next year. That in mind, we have a lot of time to influence the bill.