IBM Data Give Rare Look at Sensitive 'Offshoring' Plans

Dow Jones ^ | January 19, 2004

[Ff--150]

All Are Job Go Over Sea...

[Thebaddog]

I had to call Handspring four times last week and was routed to India all four times. Aside from bad attitudes and bad english, the tech persons weren't effective because of a lack of understanding of the most basic cultural nuances called courtesy. And one dope named "Alan" was spelling the words he couldn't get his mouth around by using India for I to put it in my face a little.

IMHO, this issue will go political fast. I resented the attitude and the fact that an American job went overseas. How much will corporations like IBM really save when their goodwill is in the pooper and competitors are taking advantage of my reaction? I just installed an SBC DSL over the weekend and it was an American anwering my questions and I liked it.

[Ff--150]

E-LECT DEMOCR.. PRE-SEE-DEN AND NO MORE JOB GO-WIN OVER SEA

[redgolum]

Isn't there a thread earlier today that said IBM was going to hire 4,500 + more workers in the US?

I have seen some of this tech job exports first hand. Often, the company begins to pull the jobs back home after a few years due to bad press, public complaints, and bad service.

[Straight Vermonter]

Let me say something as an IBMer. I'm sure this is going to be unpopular but the fact is that most of my coworkers have a terrible attitude. Despite 2 recent rounds of layoffs they seem to consider their continued employment to be something owed to them.

As just one example, if a project is required to be done this week then they can be expected to begin working on it Friday morning. They will release it at 5pm Friday afternoon and let all hell break loose over the weekend.

Now maybe the foreign employees will be no better maybe even worse. But I think the "IBM culture" that existed until about 1993 and is still exists in the hearts of too many IBMers is a primary reason for looking overseas.

[tx_eggman]

Hate to burst your bubble, but India is the NATO, US Army, International Radio Operator , et. al. standard phonetic call sign for the letter I.

Grow a thicker skin.

[sinkspur]

How much will corporations like IBM really save when their goodwill is in the pooper and competitors are taking advantage of my reaction?

You don't interface with programmers. And, the competitors will have to offshore as well, to remain competitors.

[glorgau]

I gotta agree on this. In the heart of "cube land" there is a sense of entitlement that is sickening. For most of the those people, their main job is "job security", not whatever product they are working on.

This is why I work as a consultant, so I can get in, and get out, before I get infected.

[sinkspur]

But I think the "IBM culture" that existed until about 1993 and is still exists in the hearts of too many IBMers is a primary reason for looking overseas.

I didn't realize what the "IBM culture" was until I left IBM in 1995.

I still love IBM and own quite a bit of stock, so I'm rooting for you guys.

But, I still hear complaints from my software customers that also buy IBM that IBM seems to take them for granted.

Neglect creates opportunity for me.

[webstersII]

"Aside from bad attitudes
and bad english, the tech persons weren't effective because of a lack of understanding of the most basic
cultural nuances called courtesy. "

They can be very aggressive and obnoxious, no doubt about that.

[DManA]

There is no trend, no mater how self-destructive, that American business won't take to extremes.

[ikka]

how that it expects to save $168 million annually starting in 2006

That is nice for IBM; but last year their revenue was $89 Billion, and net income was $7.6 Billion. So this savings is really a drop in the bucket in terms of adding to the bottom line. Considering the many other issues they will have with for instance, intellectual property rights, with these new programmers, I find it hard to believe that they will truly save that much.

[browardchad]

Isn't there a thread earlier today that said IBM was going to hire 4,500 + more workers in the US?

IBM announced that they are adding 15,000 jobs -- less than a third of those, 4,500, are in the U.S. Less than half of IBM's current workforce (somewhere in the 300,000 range) are in the U.S., so the percentage of U.S. jobs continues to trend downward with this latest news.

[Labyrinthos]

My father worked at IBM for more than 30 years beginning back in the early 1950's, when Old Man Watson would personally drop in for a chat every couple of months to make sure operations were meeting his expectations. My father never missed a day of work in all the years except for vacations (he never used all his days), funerals, and a couple of weeks when he had surgery. Bad weather meant only that you left yourself some extra travel time, and not feeling well meant that you warned everyone to keep their distance. For him, IBM began to change for the worse in the late 1970's and early 1980's when the dress code eased and the younger workers took what they believed to be a life-time tenure for granted. "Too many chiefs and not enough indians" was also one of my father's favorite description of management as he was nearing retirement.

Although I don't work for IBM, there are Beamers all around me. One older guy I know who still works for IBM was telling me that IBM was looking overseas not so much to cut costs, but because Amercians don't have the skills and attitude that IBM needs right now. In his view, Americans are spoiled and undereducated, particularly in math and science. And while outsourcing will save labor costs, my friend says that the savings will not be as much as the Wall Street Journal types think because of the inefficiencies of working in third-world countries. The real reason for the outsourcing is that American workers lack the skills that IBM needs right now, and the sad part, he says, is that the displaced American workers have no idea how poorly skilled they really are.

[Labyrinthos]

IBM will not save that much money. According to a friend of mine who works at IBM, that's not the primary reason for moving jobs oveseas. See Post No. 15

[Straight Vermonter]

To clarify your remarks the new jobs IBM announced are largely in their services division. This means that they have to be where the customers are. Since IBM has customers in nearly every country on Earth that is where the jobs will be.

IBM continues manufacturing computers and equipment here in the US as well as overseas including a new multi-billion dollar plant in East Fishkill NY.

[Dialup Llama]

> In his view, Americans are spoiled and undereducated, particularly in math and science.

Typical bossspeak to justify the offshoring. A math and science grad who goes into programming mean his education will be 95% unused.

[lelio]

Whiskey
India
Papa
Romeo
Oscar

This one has a better ring to it:

Tango
Alpha
Tango
Alpha

[Lael]

There is no trend, no mater how self-destructive, that American business won't take to extremes.

ROTFLMAO!!!