ARTILLERY: Marine Mortar Replaces Howitzer

StrategyPage.com ^ | January 16, 2004

[Cannoneer No. 4]

CARDOM 120mm autonomous self propelled recoiling mortar

[CasearianDaoist]

Thank for clearing that up.

[Peace will be here soon]

Yeah, 180HP with about 300 ft/lbs of torque would move 20,000 + pounds of metal just fine. I didn`t even think diesel when I read the article. Been around gassers to long I guess.

[centurion316]

Well, I'm a redleg, so color me very sceptical of replacing rifled tube artillery with a mortar.

The powers of reasoning and intellect that you have so ably demonstrated on many threads on this forum have convinced me to refute your conclusions at great risk. My own personal experiences are also biased toward your view. I once was the proud recepient of an unannounced visit by four rounds of 4.2" from my battalion's very own heavy mortar platoon. Not only was I unimpressed by the general lack of precision of mortars, the demonstrated lack of gunnery skills amongst this platoon, at least, left me less than impressed.

[Darksheare]

Well.. the goons on that gun were cranking as fast as they could, 'Speed elevating and depressing' the tube while chanting "Speed check!"
They cranked the muzzle brake into the dirt, and kinda reverse folded it.
It made the distinct sound of twisting and tearing metal.
Meanwhile, the M-198 crew next to theirs is pretty much saying, "This can only end in pain."
My crew that I was training with looks over, looks among ourselves, and quickly tells our sarge, "Just so our stories match: We deny knowledge."

It was interesting to watch the trails fold over that way, I didn't think it was possible.
But, I never thought it was possible to get an M-119 to flip over wheels up during towing on flat ground.

[eno_]

I saw a "Davey Crocket" on display at the West Point museum. Very deadpan description about the "limitations" of a nuke that could be thrown a maximum of 1000m.

[Orangedog]

Davey Crocket...king of the wild frontier.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Supacat High Mobility Transporter

Looks like they just bolt the mortar down to the cargo bed.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

[razorback-bert]

Well, I'm a redleg

That happens even in the best of families, there are some nifty 12 step support groups for it now.

[Snickersnee]

Not wanting to beat this tube-arty vs. mortar thing to death, but another calculation you have to make in comparing the two types is logistics: the howitzer (or gun) is a spot-target weapon. The mortar is an area-target weapon wherein, once the FO is confident of hitting the target after bracketing shots have closed in, the SOP calls for "Section, thirty rounds!" That's a lot of cubic feet and kg's of Class V to expect your logpac to hustle. Not saying it can't be done (having seen both sides up close) but given the "expeditionary mentality" the CSA now expects us to have, I have begun to think as a loggie as much as a fire-support puke.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

[neverdem]

Thanks, great links.

[jackbill]

I'm still waiting for 'Atomic Annie' to make a comeback. ;) 280mm's of tactical nuclear fun!

That's either the one, or a relative of the one that Eisenhower had rolled around Korea in 1953, to convince the North Koreans to get serious about armistice talks. I saw it go up and down the road several times.

[Orangedog]

That's either the one, or a relative of the one that Eisenhower had rolled around Korea in 1953, to convince the North Koreans to get serious about armistice talks. I saw it go up and down the road several times.

Sounds like you were there. If so, I'll defer to your experience. I wasn't even thought of at that time;).

From my perspective, Korea was a mess that Truman could have prevented. If anyone had atomic credibility at that time, he did, and didn't make the best of it. If I were him, I would have delivered a very clear message to China in these words: "In 1945 I had two atomic bombs and I gave the order to incinerate two Japanese cities...I have more than two atomic bombs today. If you know what's good for you, stay out of this!"

Moving the 509th into the area was a good move, but IMO, it didn't get the point across adequately.

[FreedomPoster]

>>If somebody would be kind enough to instruct me on how to put a photo on this thread, I'll show you what this puppy looks like.

Well, it's starting to get a little out of date, but I'm afraid the best thing to do is for you to go to (HTML) Boot Camp.

[FreedomPoster]

>>If somebody would be kind enough to instruct me on how to put a photo on this thread, I'll show you what this puppy looks like.

Well, it's starting to get a little out of date, but I'm afraid the best thing to do is for you to go to (HTML) Boot Camp.

[neverdem]

How timely, I was just about to ping you. Check out the links in comments# 55 & 61, especially the links within 55. Here's a link you might like:

http://riv.co.nz/rnza/hist/mortar/mort17.htm

[CatoRenasci]

Any crew that put a 4.2" mortar round through the hatch of a tank was lucky, not accurate. I would bet that couldn't be duplicated in 100 rounds with the same survey, the same met., the same ammunition lot, and the same tube. On the other hand, I've seen crews put successive 8" rounds (inert) through the window of a bunker on Signal Mountain at Ft. Sill.

Mortars are useful when you don't have artillery, but for accuracy, true all-weather capability, quantity of steel on target over time, and availability of appropriate munitions, give me tube artillery.

[El Gato]

Attach some sort of GPS guidance package to a mortor round and I am sure they could be just as accurate as a JDAM.

Those do exist. Don't know if they do for the 120mm or not. The motar is probably better for that sort of thing, since it has lower accellerations, which is easier on the electronics, and longer flight times, which means more time for the guidance to correct the point of impact.