ARTILLERY: Marine Mortar Replaces Howitzer

StrategyPage.com ^ | January 16, 2004

[SICSEMPERTYRANNUS]

This article is inaccurate. The Marine Corps still intends to field the Lightweight 155. The 120 mortar is intended to plug the indirect fire support gap between the 81s and the 155.

SIC

[neverdem]

What's the advantage to breech loading mortars other than more control when the weapon is fired, i.e. the weapon is already loaded, waiting to fire?

[SICSEMPERTYRANNUS]

CR,
We still have 60s. The Company Commmander's own personal artillery:)

SIC

[CasearianDaoist]

I thought the Corp just fielded a new lightweight titanium alloy 155mm a few years back. It is extremely light and can be a carried in on most fixed-wing and rotary transport. With the V-22 they can bring one down with its crew and a couple of days of rounds. Perfect for rough terrain where speedy insertion is better than a self propelled solution. I think that this particular mortar are for more "mechanized units" like the LACV companies. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that they plan to use both. The point here is that they do not want to use a 155 self propelled tube, not that they will have no 155's in the corp.

With the addition of those small light weight MLRS that the corp is getting they are really developing a very powerful "mini battery brigade? and the MEB and MEF level that can also be spun out to the MEUs. It makes them capable of taking on good sized regional armies while still maintianing the expeditionary profile.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

IMHO, rifle tubed artillery has already been obsoleted by airborne munitions since it is much easier to call in an air strike than it is to transport howitzers into firing range of the rapidly advancing spear heads.

That does seem to be the crux of the argument.

For as long as most of us can remember, our most likely adversary thought of artillery as the God of War. He devoted enormous resources to outgunning us, and we devoted much effort at counter-battery and anti-armor munitions delivery. Both our artilery and his was considered the primary casualty producer.

That adversary is gone now. Artillery is now looked upon by some as a relic of industrial age warfare.

I think it premature to do away with tube artillery. The Air Force will never take care of you like your own Direct Support 155mm Battalion will.

[CasearianDaoist]

Do not forget that they have organtic fixed and rotary air support at the MEU level. They just want flexibility.

[Parmy]

2nd,2nd Mech. had a 4.2 mortor section in their battalion over 30 years ago. They were mounted in the back of M113's, the old tin box we used as mechanized infantry. They went everywhere they were needed.

[CasearianDaoist]

They just bought the new smaller MLRS system. Very cool battery integration. The smaller system can go on a C130 and can also fire ATACMS. Very mobile, very powerful.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Dragon Fire Mortar System Test Successful

A Dragon Fire 120mm mortar mounted on a Marine Corps Light Armored Vehicle fires during a recent test at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren, Va. Photo courtesy U.S. Navy Surface Weapon Center

Meanwhile, Stryker Mortar crews have to roll their tubes down the ramp and fire from the ground.

[edwin hubble]

"Why use a 122? What's wrong with the 4duce?"

The 122mm is half again the projectile size of the 4.2 inch.
the 122mm range is 8.2km vs. a range of 5.4km for the 4.2 inch.

---

The 4.2" mortar is 106.68mm in diameter, compared to the 122mm mortar. (a ratio of 1.1436 to 1)

If you compare the relative volumes (taking the cube of the diameters to approximate the mass and volume of the projectile) it is 1.50 to 1.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Read Return of the Air Commandos: USAF Close Air Support for the 21st Century. You might change your mind about artillery being obsolete.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

HMT 400 Series 4X4 High Mobiliy Transport

[Ringman]

It seems like the AMOS-system is looking for buyer in the US. As far as mortars go it could work wery well on a Stryker, or any of your armored vehicles for that matter.

AAI Corporation Enters Into Technology License for AMOS Mortar System


AMOS in action

[Jimmy Valentine]

Crusader was an overweight piece of junk. This will cancel the Stryker.

Regards,

[Cannoneer No. 4]

CARDOM 120mm Mobile Mortar System

[Cannoneer No. 4]

HIMARS

[USMCVet]

You're close: the Marine Corps is still getting the Lightweight 155 (not exactly light - about 9,500 pounds all by itself). The V-22 can carry one of them for short distances since it has to carry that gun externally - and there isn't much load capacity left for crew or ammunition (and the truck). I don't know if you've ever had the pleasure of horsing 155mm ammunition around, but it comes in 800-pound pallets and if you don't happen to have a 4,000 pound forklift with you, it's going to take a long time to move that ammo!

The concept is to have the medium-caliber, medium range EFSS covering the direct support work for the fast-moving maneuver units, the LW 155s providing the battlefield shaping/reinforcing/counterfire missions and the HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) providing the long range high value target/counterfire punch.

The EFSS is aimed at supporting the deployed MEUs with something a bit more portable (the 155s aboard ship are referred to as "ballast"). Depending on the mission and the forces we're dealing with, we will bring in the heavy hitters for well-balanced fire support.

[USMCVet]

Thanks Cannoneer No. 4!
That's my favorite picture of that puppy...
Semper Fi

[fourdeuce82d]

If you compare the relative volumes (taking the cube of the diameters to approximate the mass and volume of the projectile) it is 1.50 to 1.

Impeccable reasoning & calculation...shot down by an inconsiderate reality! *grin*

it would seem like that should be the case, but it's not- the 120 mm rounds are about 30 lbs, the 4.2" are ~26. The thing is, the two rounds are shaped differently- the 120s taper back to a fin assembly, whereas the 107/4.2" rounds look like artillery rounds with a small tube sticking out the bottom to hold the "cheese charge" propellant.

IIRC, some 120mm rounds actually have less explosive filler than the 'deuce. But the greater diameter of the 120s, plus their lack of spin, would be an advantage if you wanted to use them to deliver a shaped charge warhead.

[Joe Marine 76]

"Cannoneers are going to be getting mighty scarce."

And no more "Saint Barbara's Day" celebrations for the cannoneers!