Jay Ambrose: The Bush plan on immigration - Those Furious Orcs Are Talking

Naples Daily News ^

[ZULU]

No. I have been referring to him as Karlville Rove as he is Bush's evil genius, the equalent ( almost) of James Carlville. The difference is Carlville was at least true to a political ideology, even if a failed one. Rove seems to feel anything goes as long as it MIGHT inicrease Bush's numbers in 2004.

[lonewacko_dot_com]

First, who the heck is Jay Ambrose?

Second, all he's got are strawman arguments.

From http://www.townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/bs20040114.shtml we learn this shocking statistic:

"From 1992 to 2002, the number of companies fined for hiring illegals dropped from 1,063 to just 13."

Also see "Correcting the Record About President Bush's Immigration Proposal" http://www.fairus.org/Media/Media.cfm?ID=2344&c=34

[geedee]

Enforcement? Simple. Make all employers who hire illegals subject to ten year prison sentences. If enough of them hear . . . "Bubba thinks you're cute, fella" . . . all prospective employees will have to pass FBI, CIA, and MI6 background checks before they'll be allowed to pick up an employment application or jump in the back of a pickup.

[exmarine]

Those orcs are going to stay home or vote 3rd party on election day!! And I hope it sends a message to Washington -- AMERICANS WANT THE BORDER CONTROLLED! Enough of this tyranny.

[mrustow]

Is this guy Ambrose as utterly ignorant of the subject he's writing on as he sounds, or does his body not contain a single honest bone?

[swampfox98]

I don't buy every item in the Bush plan

I don't buy any item in Bush's plan. Do you remember incrimintalism?" This is when politicians slowly introduce bits and pieces of legislation they know if given to the populace in its entirety would bring on war. This is the game Bush is playing with America.

What is wrong with closing the borders NOW? No, Bush will never allow that because his main goal is the same as President Fox, and that is to put an end America as we now know it. Mexico will own America within 5 years. We Americans won't even have money left to buy a newspaper.

And tell me again smart sir, what is wrong with enforcing the law and deporting the illegals? Sure it is going to hurt some, but when a killer is jailed isn't his family hurt? So should we stop jailing killers?

This is our country. Bush has no right to give it away.

[Tribune7]

Right or wrong, Bush is a leader and a decent man.

And a big improvement.

[applemac_g4]

"They have no workable alternative."

-----

Workable alternative #1:

(1) An individual or corporation that hires an illegal immigrant - whether they realize he's an illegal immigrant or not - is fined. Severely. Say $250,000 to $1 million per worker.

(2) Any educational institution (elementary school on up through universities) that lets an illegal enroll is hit with the same fine.

(3) Any hospital who treats an illegal is hit with the same fine.

Problem solved - they'll deport themselves.

[chatham]

As of tomorrow any Employer who hires Illegal aliens will be Jailed and fined 25,000 dollars for each offense.
When I open an acct in a bank I must have a valid Social Security # and the bank clerk can check out the the permit # on a similar syatem in seconds.
Any persons wanting to work in America must apply through the Govt. where they are checked thoroughly and given a permit # with an expifration date which the employer must review and report back of regular forms to the Govt.
The employer must get all employees through the govt. and is responsible to maintain records on any worker.
All workers so hired would be fingerprinted and photo ID'd
in order to be tracked.

In the 1980's any employer who hired a non citizen
would be fined 10,444 dollars for each offense.
Illegal aliens allowed to roam through the country to seek out jobs on their own without any form of monitoring is just insane and is the reason for the current mess we are in.
There are as many ways to solve this problem as there are ILLEGALS in our country.

[mrustow]

Thanks for the great links!

[mrustow]

Right or wrong, Bush is a leader and a decent man.

And a big improvement.

It sounds like you're saying, "George Bush, right or wrong." It is one thing to say, "My country right or wrong," since the alternative is to commit treason, or to renounce one's citizenship. (By implication, one is admitting that one's country is wrong.) But George Bush is not America. And as for whether he's an improvement over Bill Clinton, that once obvious truth is becoming more ambiguous by the day. But your statement is irrelevant anyway. It implies, "Bill Clinton was so bad, that Bush gets carte blanche." George Bush does not get a free ride. A free people does not give carte blanche to any leader.

[Tribune7]

It sounds like you're saying, "George Bush, right or wrong."

No, that's not what I'm saying. It's important to criticize Bush, and most of those upset about his immigration proposal are pretty decent people, although my view is that the proposal is a lot better than the status quo.

What I'm saying is that whether you agree with this policy or not, or choose to vote for Bush or not, you have to admit he has character unlike our last leader.

He is not ducking this issue even though it would probably be of political benefit for him to do so.

[FITZ]

That's what they need to do --- go after the illegal employers just like they go after tax evaders. Just like tax evaders ---- they won't catch all of them but they will make it less attractive a crime to commit.

[Happy2BMe]

"they'll deport themselves."

All ten million of them?

Granted, the solution to the crisis is closer to employer regulation than it is to trying to regulate the legitimacy of ten million stealth shadows.

Should Congress overnight find a conscience and the Senate wake up tomorrow with ethics, we might have a chance.

Until then . .

[pawdoggie]

"...pro-Amnesty Republicans..." You mean like that great bleeding heart Leftie, Ronald Reagan. What President Bush attempted to do (weak on the border control side as it was) was to match illegals (and "legals", to include US citizens) with jobs. Once all the jobs were filled, the theory went, the surplus illegal population wouldn't have much choice but to go home. Yeah, the President's proposal ("political" though it may have been, that's what politicians do: politics) is dead. So now we're left with Option 1) "do nothing", 2) the Democrat approach (amnesty for all, a "fast track" to US citizenship, and "voting rights" for the amnestied non-citizen), and 3)the Tom Tancredo on steroids approach advocated by so many at FR: fine and jail employers (no matter how much economic dislocation to a recovering economy this might cause); increase the Border Patrol to the size of US Army and suspend the Constitution so we can ferret out all illegals; and mine and fence the Canadian and Mexican borders. The only problem is that Option 1 isn't working, and 2) and 3) are also D.O.A.

[Kay Soze]

Rush Limbaugh on the Immigration propsal by W 1-16-04:

"Let's look at the politics of it - and in saying this to you, I don't want any inferences that I am agreeing with it."

Another leftist-know-nothing-whack-job weighs in!

[lentulusgracchus]

"Well, boys, looks like meat is back on the menu!"

[Sabertooth]

"...pro-Amnesty Republicans..." You mean like that great bleeding heart Leftie, Ronald Reagan.

President Reagan tried an Amnesty. I supported it, because it was a one time thing, and there was a promise of better enforcement afterward.

Reagan's successors, including the current President Bush, all have failed to make good on that promise.

I, however, have learned my lesson, and will not trust another Amnesty for Illegals or a politician who promises to do something about them down the road.

[MattAMiller]

I don't think it's appeasement at all. It doesn't give anybody citizenship, it recognizes a difference between people who are here illegally and those who aren't, and it requires them to pay. Throw in some measures that satisfy the adminstrations admittedly vauge promises of tougher enforcement and I don't think many illegals are going to feel very appeased.