Israeli Left`s Amazing Security-Wall Turnabout

Jewish Press ^ | 1/14/2004 | Steven Plaut

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[Paleo Conservative]

The communists and their fellow travelers were ferociously anti-fascist in the mid-1930`s, but were decided pro-Hitler from the time of the Nazi-Soviet Pact of August 23, 1939.

Until June 22, 1941!

[expatpat]

Within hours of the crossing of the Soviet lines by German tanks [in 1941], the world communist movement reversed its political position regarding Nazi Germany by 180 degrees.

Just as a matter of interest, when did FDR's desire to join WWII fire up?

[William Terrell]

Does "left" and "right" over there mean the same as "left" and "right" over here?

[miltonim]

Interesting

[SJackson]

Pretty much, though with more parties. They're losing over there too.

[William Terrell]

Is the right generally the domain of those who maintain the faith of conservative Judiasm?

[Piranha]

Just as a matter of interest, when did FDR's desire to join WWII fire up?

Are you kidding? Remember Pearl Harbor (December 7, 1941)!

[adam_az]

The Reform movement is very politically active in liberal circles.

The Conservative movement is much less active but does tend to lean right.

There are various other Orthodox type movements of various political viewpoints, ranging from Meir Kahane supporters to Neuteri Karta, which doesn't think that there should even be an Israel.

[SJackson]

Is the right generally the domain of those who maintain the faith of conservative Judiasm?

I suppose that depends on how you define "right", or "conservative" Judiasm. From a political perspective, I wouldn't say so, though I'll ping some who might give you a better informed opinion.

I don't think I'd view Sharon (or netanyahu) as driven largely by faith, and they're the face of the current/previous in power right. I think it's accurate to say hostility to faith is largley found on the left.

[SJackson]

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think WT was using the phrase "conservative Judiasm" not in the sense of the Conservative movement here in the US, but rather groups such as the Haredi.

[goldstategop]

So homocide bomber mothers can blow up more children for Peace Now. The audacity of the Left in defending evil never ceases to amaze me.

[Alouette]

conservative Judiasm?

There is a denomination of Judaism which calls itself "Conservative Judaism" (with a capital C) which however tends to be liberal (pro-abortion, pro-gay) in political matters. For that matter "Conservative Judaism" also tends to be liberal in religious matters as well, but only microscopically less so than the extreme-left-liberal Reform movement.

[William Terrell]

I mean Jews that worship God, follow their faith, attend synagogue, seriously work to conform to the law that defines their faith. You know.

That's what I think of when I think of conservative Judiasm. Relax, I'm just curious. I wanted to know if folks like that, generally, are for the wall and the folks that have strayed from their faith are against it or vice versa.

[William Terrell]

Well, that clears it up somewhat. Typical liberal stuff; call yourself what you're not.

So then, those Jews that seriously follow their faith and laws of God are for or against the wall, generally?

[expatpat]

But wasn't he wanting to fight begore Pearl Harbor happened?

[thoughtomator]

Yep, religious parties are considered not just right wing, but "ultra" right wing. Wouldn't surprise me to see one described as "ultra mega" right wing in the NY Times, really.

[SJackson]

I'm assuming you're talking about Israel, not the US. You might be mixing issues a bit. Most polls I've seem indicate support for the wall is widespread, spanning the right and middle. As the article notes, only one vote against it in the cabinet. The opposition is on the left.

However the wall is related to the abandonment os settlements. There's a great deal of opposition to the "Sharon plan" in that regard, demonstrations of over 100,000, largely unreported here. A lot of that comes from the right, it's not opposition to the fence per se, but to the entirety of the plan, and likely a great danger to Sharon's government. And he hasn't gotten to defining the eastern route, and the necessary abandonments yet.

[thoughtomator]

FDR knew we would have to fight the Nazis at least as far back as 1939, when we started building the military to do so. Pearl Harbor just gave us the excuse we needed; if there were no attack there, we still would have entered the war against Germany. It's no coincidence that our first invasion was of the Vichy France holdings in Morocco, to open a new front against the Nazis in Africa, rather than in the Pacific.