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Fusion paranoia--A new twist in conspiracy theories
Jerusalem Post ^ | 1-14-04 | DANIEL PIPES

Posted on 01/14/2004 4:59:36 AM PST by SJackson

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To: Dajjal
Superb summary of the West-versus-Islamicist thinking in this area.

A major effort of the War on Terrorism must be to directly counter this apocalyptic thinking and to marginalize these beliefs within the Muslim world.

The thing that worries me is the self-fulfilling prophesy aspect of this. If I've learned from an imam that the Dajjal is the West (more more specially, America and Israel) and its attacks on Muslims, and then America responds to my buddies killing lots of westerners a la 9/11 by attacking talibs in Afghanistan, it would appear to confirm that the imam was right. I assume this is why bin Laden did what he did - to force a confrontation and the radicalization of the Muslim world.

21 posted on 01/15/2004 4:12:06 AM PST by Heatseeker
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To: seamole; SJackson; dennisw; veronica
<< Judaism: a 4500-year-old ... [Covenant with] ... G-d. >>

And you will bet your [Eternal] life on knowing better.

What an ego.

KKKli'tonesque!

Best of luck, Bucko.

Bump/Ping
22 posted on 01/15/2004 4:46:54 AM PST by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Heatseeker; risk; Yehuda; SJackson
The thing that worries me is the self-fulfilling prophesy aspect of this. If I've learned from an imam that the Dajjal is the West (more more specially, America and Israel) and its attacks on Muslims, and then America responds to my buddies killing lots of westerners a la 9/11 by attacking talibs in Afghanistan, it would appear to confirm that the imam was right. I assume this is why bin Laden did what he did - to force a confrontation and the radicalization of the Muslim world.

We are in a Catch-22. Pretty much anything we do can be interpreted as an act of the Dajjal simply because of our superpower status. If we take military action after 9/11, that is the sort of thing the Dajjal would do. But if we meet with Arab leaders, and try to open lines of communication to find peaceful solutions, that is also what the hadith predicts the Dajjal will do. The hadith foretells that some Muslims will be killed by his army, while others will be seduced by his words.

But it is important to understand that what the imam preaches is not particularly dependent upon our actions. There are plenty of ahadith that “prove” these are the Last Days without mentioning the Dajjal. For instance, “when a brother in the east can speak to a brother in the west” is one “Sign of Qiyama.” So the radio, telephone, e-mail, etc. “proves” that the final jihad is immanent.

It is a sad fact that some Muslim extremists will mistake us for the Dajjal. Our policy must be to marginalize these extremists as much as possible, and to win the support of the majority by bringing political freedom and economic prosperity to them.

24 posted on 01/19/2004 3:18:10 AM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal; Travis McGee
You're an optimist, Dajjal.
25 posted on 01/19/2004 3:39:54 AM PST by risk
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To: Dajjal
It's not just the Muslims. Christian "End-TImes" prophecy is much the same. For years and years from the ministers on the tv we hear about how all the signs are there. Jesus is *just* around the corner! "wars and rumors of war( when haven't there been both?). Earthquakes! fire! flood!

Every religion it seems has it's End Time stories. Our current problem is that the FundiMuslims are acting on theirs. Christians have not done so since the Crusades ( and damned if we are not getting pay back for all that NOW!).
26 posted on 01/19/2004 4:25:12 AM PST by SSR1
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To: SSR1
It's not just the Muslims. Christian "End-TImes" prophecy is much the same.

No, it's not the same.

While many Christian preachers are expecting Jesus to return any minute now, they are not out there instructing their followers to kill all non-believers in order to speed things along.

The typical POV of Christians who believe these are the Last Days is to expect the be among the truly faithful who are "raptured" up off the face of the Earth before the AntiChrist takes power.

Those Christians who are currently "lukewarm" (so the theory goes) will not be "raptured," but will become serious in their faith when they see their fellows vanish before their eyes. These "left behind" Christians will be the ones who suffer persecution under the AntiChrist, and who will fight the AntiChrist in Armageddon.

Overall, the Christian End-Times belief system is a reactive one. And the most serious believers do not even expect to be here for the real fight. And the fight will not begin until Jesus Himself returns to lead His followers.

In contrast. the typical Muslim End-Times belief system is a proactive one. They see it as a duty to wage jihad against any infidels as time winds down. And with the new allegorical interpretation, they do not even need to wait for an individual Mahdi, for all jihadists might collectively be the Mahdi. But even if there will be one individual Mahdi, there is no need to wait for his lead.

27 posted on 01/19/2004 6:52:13 AM PST by Dajjal
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To: SJackson
when the reptillian overlords from Rigel-11 start to roll their multi-dimemnsional vehicles down the middle of Pennsylvania Avenue, there's going to be quite a few Freepers who WON'T THINK THIS IS SO GOSH-DARN FUNNY THEN!!!

...and you people know who you are...!

28 posted on 01/19/2004 7:02:58 AM PST by martin gibson
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To: Dajjal
I think you are correct. Living in a culturally southern rural area, I know people who belong to sects (or, in one case, a cult) who focus on "end times". In all cases, they seem to feel the only way to prepare is to hunker down in a defensive mode.

For instance, “when a brother in the east can speak to a brother in the west” is one “Sign of Qiyama.” So the radio, telephone, e-mail, etc. “proves” that the final jihad is immanent.

I seem to recall this as being one of the reasons for the ulama taking on Abd al Aziz over the use of radio in 1920's. That episode points out two interesting features - even very conservative religious figures will change their minds quickly if they think it's in the interest of a strict intepretation of the Koran to do so (Abd al Aziz pointed out that readings from the Koran could be broadcast) but that tendency works both ways (the ulama had supported Abd al Aziz against the Ikhwan a bit earlier).

29 posted on 01/20/2004 5:48:00 AM PST by Heatseeker
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To: veronica
There is more nutball crap on the internet than you can shake a stick at.

Proof positive Head Reptilian Gore invented the internet.

30 posted on 01/20/2004 5:57:36 AM PST by mtbopfuyn
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