(Smoking) Ban puts bars in the red

The Greeley Tribune (Greeley, Colorado) ^ | 1/12/04 | Phillip Yates

[Looking for Diogenes]

How did going to a bar turn into brothels and opium dens?

Gabz is taking the libertarian line that if someone wants to do something they ought to be allowed to do it without government restriction. I was pointing out that that is hogwash - some people would like to have brothels and opium dens too but the rest of the public doesn't want that to happen.

Likewise, the majority of the public does not want smoking in bars and restaurants. Some folks may want it, but they are out of luck.

[Looking for Diogenes]

You have totally ignored the point I made.

I'm sorry, I thought I had addressed it. Can you restate it please?

[Gabz]

Because thousands of businesses fail every year and the fact that a few are listed in an article means squat!

It doesn't mean "squat" to the owners who have gone under because of the smoking bans, does it?

You don't own one of the businesses that have had to lay off employees, cut the hours of the remaining employees, cut hours of being open, stop hiring bands, etc.

It may not be as bad to the businesses in Florida because the weather is generally reasonable, but the further north you go, having to go outside doesn't hold any water.

You got what you wanted in your corner of the world - leave the rest of the world alone.

[Looking for Diogenes]

this is not so much a bar issue as it it a business and property issue

Well then I misread the title of the thread. I thought it said "bars."

Businesses are regulated up the wazoo. There are a thousand things that bar owners cannot do that they'd like to. But they are singled out for special regulation and have been for since at least 1919. This is just another rule imposed upon them by the government on behalf of the public. Now no business owner likes to have rules imposed on them, but communities have an interest regulating the businesses that operate in their borders. There is no federal law making communities pass anti-smoking ordinances. They do it because they want to. I know that democracy seems like a really lousy system, but it is less lousy then the other ways of running things.

[Gabz]

You seem to be saying that anything anyone wants to do they should be permitted to do, so long as it is on their own private land.

I spoke to one thing - you are the one that is trying to twist my words to mean something else.

Address my specifics or do not twist my words.

I will then address your concerns.

[Gabz]

No problem!!!!!!!!!!

[maxwell]

Gabz is taking the libertarian line that if someone wants to do something they ought to be allowed to do it without government restriction. I was pointing out that that is hogwash - some people would like to have brothels and opium dens too but the rest of the public doesn't want that to happen.

First of all, smoking in bars is hardly akin to having brothels and opium dens.

Likewise, the majority of the public does not want smoking in bars and restaurants. Some folks may want it, but they are out of luck.

Who is this majority of the public? Are we talking statistical majority (if so, where are the numbers?) or are we talking vocal "majority"? Sort of like the majority who wanted prohibition, eh?

Look: people know what to expect when they walk into a bar. A bar is for drinking and smoking and other potentially nasty habits. If folks don't want to deal with that, then they should stay home or go to a Starbucks instead. This smoking-ban-in-bars thing is friggin' ridiculous.

I was in a bar several months ago, smoking and having a beer just like everyone else around me and some preppy punk said something about my cigarette smoke offending him. Now mind you, the air in that place was positively pea-soup thick and had been long before I walked in. I refrained from exhaling in his face and replied "then why are you here? Find some other place where nobody is smoking. There are plenty. Don't chase ME out just to suit YOU. You know what to expect when you walk in here." He backed off right quick.

[Gabz]

You're good!!!!!!

[maxwell]

Likewise, the majority of the public does not want smoking in bars and restaurants. Some folks may want it, but they are out of luck.

I speculate that the majority of people doesn't want tofu turkey, guano coffee or beef tripe menudo, either. Does that mean that those products should not be available to those (perhaps eccentric) individuals who DO want them? Are those individuals out of luck? Huh? Huh?

[maxwell]

I'm just preachin' what I've always preached, chickie. See my post 89-- Diogenes' arguments hold no water.

[Joshua]

"Cigarette smoking is no advantage to your body at all. This habit destroys your lungs (in God's temple) causes all kinds of cancer and decreases your life span, thus shorting the time you can serve God on this earth. So every time you light up as a Christian, you're tearing apart God's temple, decreasing your time to serve God and throwing away God's money."

Do you also give this insight to all the overweight people in your church?

Btw smoking is in the Bible. Let me give you the scripture to prove it.

" Gen 24:64 64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. (KJV) "

Joe Camel goes back a long way.....

[Gabz]

In a nutshell - the point I was making is that many establisments have already gone non-smoking. By government mandate of ALL establishments being non-smoking - those that did that on their own have now had their market stripped away from them.

These owners had the right to cater to non-smokers, just as others had the right to cater to smokers - government mandated smoking bans remove all of those rights.

[dpa5923]

I have always believed the greatest gift God gave mankind (besides salvation) was free will. God, even in His infinite wisdom, lets me decide what I do. But you, a mere creation of God, and a grossly imperfect one, want to take away my free will, a gift from God. Or do you prefer that imperfect creations, elected by imperfect creations take away God's gift to me?

Just who the hell do you think you are?

[maxwell]

LMAO! Lighting off a camel...

[Gabz]

I missed this post of LfD - thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Me, taking a libertarian line???? ROFLMAO. Even my husband, who is a registered Libertarian would find the implication hilarious.

If believing in the right of a propety owner and the right of free assembly and association is offensive to some people, all I can say is that it is their problem not mine.

[Gabz]

Well put.

Can say no more.

[Great Dane]

When your number's up, your number is up. The healthier you live, the healthier a corpse you'll be...

LOL, ain't that the truth.

[Great Dane]

Well then I misread the title of the thread. I thought it said "bars."

This thread is, but as a smoking issue, it takes in a whole lot more than bars, just because this thread mentions only bars, that doesn't exclude all the rest affected by government over regulation.

[Great Dane]

Gen 24:64 64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. (KJV) "

Priceless, gota remember that one. ROTF.

[grimalkin]

Cigarette smoking is no advantage to your body at all. This habit destroys your lungs (in God's temple) causes all kinds of cancer and decreases your life span, thus shorting the time you can serve God on this earth. So every time you light up as a Christian, you're tearing apart God's temple, decreasing your time to serve God and throwing away God's money.

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -C.S. Lewis