Up-Armored Humvees Still a Priority

DefendAmerica News ^ | dec2003 | U.S. Army Spc. Samuel A. Soza

[Cannoneer No. 4]

LOL

That's what my wife says as a way of admitting she has lost the argument.

If you don't read my posts, how do you know I am still here?

This is MY thread.

YOU go away.

[Iris7]

Oh, have you been making an argument? Sounded like insane raving. Does you wife plan on staying? Poor woman.

[Iris7]

Please do not address your comments to me. I don't want to see them on my "my comments" page.

[PhilDragoo]

This is good news. I hope they can make them faster.

$1500? Current owners spent that on new faucets for their master vanity.

Reading Richard Miniter, Losing bin Laden, October 1993 having hordes of Somalis hacking Rangers to bits--

--because traitorrapist42 pulled the Marines, denied armor, left it all in the UN's hands.

If our Coalition fighters are regularly traveling past Improvised Explosive Devices and are shot at with AK-47s and RPGs--

--am I to deny them some steel?

Some steel they'll weld on the vehicles themselves?

As I go about in a thin-skinned truck where the most thrown my way is the odd angry digit?

Hand the rod and hood and gloves over and I'll put in the overtime.

[Darksheare]

I agree.
Give us the Humvees, the steel, and teh welder's tools and we'll do it.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Insane raving? You obviously haven't encountered insane raving.

[SAMWolf]

Yep! It's called "Field improvision". No one is better at it than American troops.

We used sand bags in our jeeps, which I preferred to the Humvee, cuz I wan't to get out quick if I had to. We welded PSP to Duece and a halves and added more firepower. It's the American way. :-)

[Iris7]

I have been trying to talk sense to this guy forever on this thread. Look at my posts. He needs an attitude adjustment. Thanks for dropping by.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Having forfeited any pretense of civility, I see no reason to honor your request until such time as you retract your lies and apologize.

Until then, suffer.

I thought you said you didn't read them. Another lie.

[Iris7]

So you think I need an example of insane raving? Believe me, you have done a good job of so far.

[Darksheare]

True. The casualty aversion mentality is the driving force of some of our operational strategy lately.
We had so few casualties during Desert Storm that the higher ups got high on it.
They felt that it could be policy to keep casualties low.
This will not win wars, especially if you cut the nubers of troops we have the way Clinton did.
I'd suggested sticking miniguns on the rooves of some of my units humvees 'just in case'.
I got told that I was nuts.
I dunno, being able to saw half the opfor in half within seconds would be a good thing.

Light towed artillery units COULD do with some up armored vehicles, as could MP units.
I don't see as Infantry or Armored units would have a need for humvees at all.
Logistics, maintenence and supply would use them, but the need for extra armoring would fluctuate from unit to unit.
(It would add survivability to the vehicle and it's occupants should having to run be the only option, that's the only use for uparmoring the humvee.)

[Cannoneer No. 4]

An Iraqi worker of the Peerot Co. Ltd. arc welds a steel plate; a piece of the new armor kits for Humvees offered to units with soldiers constantly on the road in soft-back vehicles. U.S. Army photo by Spc. Samuel A. Soza

I have advocated on other threads alternatives to the M1114 Armored HMMWV, including improvised armor. We are finally seeing evidence of something they should have been doing since May. I am not opposed to it. But like cannibilization, improvised field modifications have to be controlled. Many of these modified vehicles will never be returned to their original configurations. Few will ever leave Iraq. They won't have the speed, mobility, payload capacity, fuel economy and reliability they had before the improvised armor was applied. Blackhawks may not be able to slingload them anymore, and they are now too heavy to airdrop. The commander who authorized the modifications had to take all this into consideration. In this case he decided improvised armor was worth it. There may be other situations in the future in which a commander decides othewise.

What concerns me is this building pressure to armor every vehicle.

The shortage of M1114's is being turned into a political issue by people with agendas I do not trust.

Lack of armor protection is being blamed for each soldier's death. I always thought the enemy had something to do with it.

[SAMWolf]

I agree with you in part. They need the right equipment for the mission. Not all vehilces need to be or should be be up-armored. Troops should be provided the proper armored vehicles. Ones that were meant to be armored in the first place. The Humvee was never meant to ba a tank or APC. Alter your TOE to fit the mission.

[Darksheare]

Armor isn't going to stop every soldier's death, obviously.
Armor on a Humvee is only good for when you have to get out of dodge while keeping yourself in slightly one piece.
My old unit used M1097's and M998's. (Humvee variants)
We could have used armor, as well as the miniguns I mentioned.
We only had use for armor that would stop regular 223 rounds or deflect them, and give reasonable protection from 7.62.
Being an artillery unit, we didn't have use for armor protection from anything bigger.
Besides, if we were around for the enemy to start taking pot shots at us with RPG's, we were in a world of hurt anyway and shouldn't be there.
(More than likely my unit would have come under small arms fire first, the miniguns would provide heavy punch through the spray and pray method that I don't normally advocate while we extricated ourselves. Anyone stupid enough to break cover while the minguns are firing would get posthumous recognition. I'd also advocated getting us some Mk19's among other things.)

Not every unit has a use for armor anyway, those that do are teh ones that get top priority or should get it anyway.
Besides, if they need armor THAT bad, the ASV would be a better choice of vehicle.
Though for an artillery unit, light towed, an ASV would be overkill.
(But, I can do overkill. Who ever said we had to play fair?)

Of course, my whole mention of light towed artillery is moot anyway.
Light towed artillery is being phased out regardless of it's utility, and it's mission has been supposedly superceded by airpower.
*snort*
Academic argument in a way then.
But, the possibility of 'what might have been'..
*chuckle*
My pro-artillery bias is showing yet again.
Laters -Darksheare