Bush Pulls Off Shrewd Stroke (Immigration strategery is a coup de main)

The United Press International ^ | January 8, 2004 | Martin Sieff

[garandgal]

You and whoever can flame me if you like, but winning a flame war on the INTERNET is much like winning a gold medal at the special Olympics, in the end you're still a retard :-)

Gee, that was a nice comment. My sister was a gold medal winner in the Special Olympics.

[PuNcH]

or an attempt at assuring an endless supply of semi-indentured servants.

I'm sure they'll be screaming "apartied" if they dont get enough of what they want.

[Jodi]

You and whoever can flame me if you like, but winning a flame war on the INTERNET is much like winning a gold medal at the special Olympics, in the end you're still a retard :-)

That is funnier than hell. btw, your sticker is a hit in my area. most people drive like hell to see what my rear window says, then back off. once in while someone has an issue with it, but usually it's a thumbs up! thanks again, Mike. you rock!

[SerpentDove]

Yep. Even before Congress gets working on it, I think he still has a lot of 'splainin' to do.

[Revel]

Here is an interesting link with facts about the non-bennifit of illegals. (costs)

http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1209&c=15

[RLK]

"It may backfire on him, but it probably won't." Either way -it will backfire on America.

-----------------------

America doesn't count. Globalism does. Christian socialism does. Stupidity does. The present form of '60s hippie countercultural thinking does.

[Siamese Princess]

Apparently jobs and the economy are hot topics --- and the news on the number of new jobs was not good today. It's going to be hard for Bush to justify matching Mexicans to those few jobs being created.

You are right. Right now, the American people are feeling more optimistic about the future. But, if we continue with this jobless recovery, the majority of voters may not care if the economy is growing at 8% a year, or 80%, if few middle-class jobs are created and many are continuing to be off-shored. On top of that, Pres. Bush wants to increase the competition for a shrinking job pie?

[Happy2BMe]

Bush's Ridiculous Speech About Immigration Reform

DUMPING CONSERVATIVES AT THE BORDER

Jobs Americans Won't Do: Voodoo Economics from the White House.

[WOSG]

Uh, there is no evidence that this proposal will win him hispanic votes though... not legal ones anyway.

It only serves the useful purpose of showing how extreme the Democrats are, JMHO.

Without enforcement reform in immigration this is bad policy and bad policy never makes good politics.

[FITZ]

For one --- I can't imagine that at least some of the illegals didn't learn or hear about the problem the braceros had with their government robbing them of all that pension money --- so I can't see Bush's proposal to turn these guests worker's money over to that same government to do all over. Just including that seems very weird to me. It wasn't long ago that the former braceros sued our government to replace that money their own government had stolen.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

No, he just knows that a certain type of conservative stayed home in the 2000 election and he's learned he can't count on them.

Absolutely spot-on! They're the weak, watery sorts of "conservatives" who claim repeatedly, on these boards, to have been "devoted lifelong Republicans"... and yet (oddly enough) are the very first to yelp like so many spanked spaniel puppies that "ah'ma gonna vote fer thet thar Super-Duper Constitutionalist Party this year, by gum, by jingo!" like clockwork, two or three times per day.

Facts are hard, cruel things... and this is one of them: anyone allowing any extremist liberal Democrat (like, say, Howard Dean) to take nationwide power -- whether by p!ssing their vote away in a sulk, or else staying home on Election Day and pouting -- is no more "conservative" than Michael Moore, or Hillary Clinton.

I'd always wondered what it must look like inside an asylum, once the inmates had taken over. These past few days, on this board, have actually afforded me some invaluable insights, in that regard.

[Revel]

It does appear that way.

[Hoverbug]

The idea that Rove meant this puppy to be DOA from the get-go, and just a pacifier for target Hispanic voters, while not damaging otherwise because others would know it was DOA, is rather cynical, and I am not subscribing to it.

I agree. It's much like passing CFR because the SCOTUS would overturn it.

Hb

[Tamzee]

Nope, the 18% made themselves irrelevant. Their guy lost so nobody is accountable to them. You dance with the guy that brung ya and the 18% tried to bring a guy that never made it to the floor.

Bush is dancing with the 82% that did vote for him... the purists that knifed him in the back are welcome to sit down, shut up and be grateful to the 82% smart enough to vote him in and keep Gore OUT of office.

Politics in the real world... your guy loses so you have no voice with the politician who wins.

[MJY1288]

"Migrants sent home 6.3 billion dollars in 2003. Mexico made 5 billion in tourism for comparison. The key word here is "home"."

What "Migrants" do with their money is not my business or yours, I sure as hell don't want anyone telling me what to do with mine. I'll bet those figures were gathered by some socialist left wing think tank, because most conservatives refrain from scrutinizing what "Migrants" do with their money, after all they earned it, it's theirs to do as they please.

"If we enforced current laws and went after employers and stopped the handouts, we wouldn't need to round them up, bus them and put them in refugee camps. They would go home."

I agree 100%, Employers are more to blame than those crossing the border illegally.

" It would be easier to enforce current laws than the guest worker proposal btw."

I might buy that there wasn't 8 to 12 million illegals here already, To enforce the laws currently on the books would not put employers in jail, all we see now is an all expense paid trip back to Mexico that each and everyone of us pay for. If there is a way to document those who would like to work here legitimately after paying a fine for coming here illegally to begin with, I have a very hard time calling that Amnesty, They will come forward and pay for their crime in the form of a fine, just as most non felony crimes are dealt with today. We will then have a way for those who just want to come here and work and then go back home to their families, a way to do so without violating our laws. After all, if your an illegal, you certainly didn't come here to become an American citizen. you came here to work.

I think once the hysteria calms down, many will see that this might be a good first step in addressing a problem that hasn't been seriously addressed in 30 years

[Edit35]

What about the fact that it is just plain wrong to reward people for breaking into our country...regardless of the political benefits to be derived?

These illegals are already rewarded just by the fact that they are here, and perhaps working under the table, without paying taxes, and enjoying the benefits of freedom.

I too was virulently opposed to this proposal, but after looking at it and thinking rationally, it actually does make some sense, especially due to the fact that there is no other option.

The American public will not be able to stomach mass deportations of moms and dads, children and old people back to Mexico or any other country.

President Bush did the best he could under the circumstances, and under the political realities that is America 2004.

[Siamese Princess]

Here is an interesting link with facts about the non-bennifit of illegals. (costs)

The costs of illegal immigration are socialized -- healthcare, crime, English as a second language education for the children of non-English speaking illegals, etc., as well as the various costs associated with the displacement of American workers. The benefits are privatized -- cheap compliant labor.

[FITZ]

I might buy that there wasn't 8 to 12 million illegals here already

What happens to them in 3 years if they buy into this 3-year guest worker program?