Some See Tests Hindering Graduation Rate

The Journal News ^ | January 5, 2004 | ERIKA ROSENBERG AND DAVID NOVICH

[pabianice]

DUH! If you can't pass the test, you should not graduate. How stupid are these Liberals, anyway?

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[ladylib]

Parents won't support schools which flunk their children on high-stakes tests. Align the curriculum to the test. Kids complain that they are tested on stuff they never covered in class. Something is radically wrong somewhere if that's the case.

Watch for a mass exodus from the public schools if they don't do something about this. Parents are pulling their kids out for homeschooling (which is exempt from the NCLB Act) and private schools (also exempt).

After years of screwing around with kids' lives, it's time for state education departments to step up to the plate.

[SAJ]

How stupid are these liberals...?

Possibly the ultimate rhetorical question.

:^)

[gulfcoast6]

Why my goodness, what a novel idea, test them before they graduate.

[okie01]

"...said the graduation requirements have helped drop New York's graduation rate to 58 percent in 2001."

"Warren, the Minnesota sociologist, doesn't attribute the decline to the testing requirements and noted that the national graduation rate also fell, to 68 percent."

Can this be? Public schools are graduating only two out of three students nationwide?

[Conspiracy Guy]

Grades for tests are like scores for sporting events. They just aren't fair. Can't we all just get a long? If little Johnnie wants to be a doctor, who are we to demand that he be tested for learning anything in school? We need more doctors and these dang tests are just scaring people away. Next thing you know we'll be testing people to get a driver's license. Where do we put an end to this unfair practice. If all people are truly equal, why are we testing? And tell Bill Gates to send me a few billion $'s to equal us out.</Brain Damage>

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Add to that, the huge and hidden number of drop outs - called "early leavers" by the schools, so as not to stigmatize. God help our country.

[Mears]

If you can't test kids to see what they know why don't they just hand out diplomas to everyone and be done with it.

A high school diploma would then become a meaningless piece of paper and this is what some people seem to want.

[Tacis]

"Some See Tests Hindering Graduation Rate"

How about "Some See Tests Hindering Union Teachers' Raises?" The Albany paper would print a story like for one reason; the teachers' union ordered it to so as to influence the legislators.

The teachers' unions scream "more money is needed" and the legislature throws it at the teachers (who belong to a powerful and wealthy unions). The only problem is that money isn't the issue. It is lazy, inept teachers who spend far more time on administrative paperwork and teaching kids about kind fairies and evil corporations than the stuff they need. These teats measure the "stuff" and not the socialist materials. They make the teachers look bad and that is why they are criticised.

Proof? There is no discussion of minority performance on these tests. To do so would attack the teachers in the inner cities. They don't want to criticize ANY teachers. just the tests.

[AIC]

"They need to pay them a little bit better, so they feel better about where they are," Demarest said.
This is a no no. Any time ANYTHING is said or want to change in the schools the above is always what will fix it. ENOUGH!! It's not the pay. It's the attitude of the teachers, students and parents with different goals in mind that has everything all mixed up. If a person wants to learn something, they will learn it. If they don't want to learn anything they won't. A strong reason has to be given and reinforced for a student to learn what has to be learned for success in society while and after leaving school. This has to start when they are babies.
Another failure I see is the multi culture arena entering the schools and not wanting to change to the U.S. culture thats already fixed here. However, it seems that no one wants to address this situation. This is true with SLANG, it has gotten so that that's all that is spoken by a lot of people and when English is spoken or if they try to read English they can not pronounce the words and do not know what is being said and can barley read words with more than four letters. If this was address and fixed, I don't think there would be as much trouble with students learning and passing the test.

[mvpel]

After years of screwing around with kids' lives, it's time for state education departments to step up to the plate.

It's actually time for them to admit their utter failure and disband, selling off the government school facilities to the highest bidder.

[sandydipper]

God forbid that you have to be able to read, write and be able to find Demark on a map to graduate from a US high school. Why it smacks of racism.

[looscnnn]

Some studies have shown the rate has declined in recent years. Others have said the rate is overestimated, and states have not been given clear guidelines on how to calculate it.

Looks that proves how good the public education system is, overestimating and not knowing how to calculate graduation rates. It's not that hard. Take x number of seniors, subtract transfers and drop outs, divide that total from the number of actual graduates. That wasn't so difficult for people that actually got an education.

[looscnnn]

Some studies have shown the rate has declined in recent years. Others have said the rate is overestimated, and states have not been given clear guidelines on how to calculate it.

Looks like that proves how good the public education system is, overestimating and not knowing how to calculate graduation rates. It's not that hard. Take x number of seniors, subtract transfers and drop outs, divide that total from the number of actual graduates. That wasn't so difficult for people that actually got an education.

[looscnnn]

Lisa Demarest, a mother with two children in the Nyack schools, said improving graduation rates is not about lowering state standards. It is about getting more money for teachers in poorer districts where it is harder to teach. "They need to pay them a little bit better, so they feel better about where they are," Demarest said.

Another under-educated person, evidently. Why is it harder to teach in poorer districts? Maybe because of poor education being provided? Hey let's pay them more money so they at least feel better about working there, but that won't really help with the quality of the education (same teachers, more money). While I do believe teachers are under paid, I think those that actually do a good job teaching deserve to get more money. We throw more money into the system year after year, but the teachers don't see it. How about chopping a few heads at the top and having the money freed up go to the teachers.

[IronJack]

Some See Tests Hindering Graduation Rate

Good!

[taxcontrol]

In Colorado we have had testing at several levels starting I believe, at 3rd grade. We are seeing the school districts respond by changing the material that they cover.

Still not convinced my local district is up to where they need to be but they are improving.

[Betty Jane]

I don't think N.Y. teachers are underpaid. Here is a stat from 2000 from the Gotham Gazette as the NYC teachers were negotiating a new contract.

The New York State Department of Education shows teacher salaries outside the city outstripping city salaries by wide margins. For example, in Senate candidate Hillary Clinton's home town, Chappaqua, the median teacher salary is $75,190, compared to $47,345 in New York City. And it's not just posh districts that pay more. The median salary in Yonkers is $67,291. In Mt. Vernon, it's $67,900.

Starting salaries all over the region dwarf New York City salaries, too. A first year teacher in Yonkers earns $40,000. New York City pays $31,900.

The NYC teachers are paid less than their suburban counterparts, but most of NY state teachers are making a very livable salary in a few years time. And let's not forget the very generous state retirement plan, health benefits, etc. for what amounts to a six hour a day job(for the lazy ones) with 15 weeks off, plus all the holidays. Now when you look at $67,000 a year median income, it doesn't look underpaid at all.