A Plan to Save American Manufacturing

TradeAlert.org ^ | Wednesday, December 31, 2003 | Kevin L. Kearns, Alan Tonelson, and William Hawkins

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: isolationist bunkers

I have read the entire thread. I do not recall anyone demanding isolation. Some advocate tariffs as a way to effect fair trade in the free trade world. Who opposes defending America's interest by trying to make things fair? What to do about China's phony exchange rate and their violations of their WTO agreements?

More important to me I do not trust the chi-coms. Their's is not the "kinder, gentler nation" as Rather described China just hours before Tiananmen square ran ankle deep in freedom's blood.

I was blessed to have a lifetime of freedom and opportunity because the W.W.II "greatest generation" continued to control things during the Cold War.

They were called isolationists and chided for "playing into the hands of the Communist hard-liners" for not offering the USSR technical and economic assistance. Many corporations desperately wanted a shot at the 250 million "consumers."

We survived. The former Soviet Union is no more. The people there did it from within just like we did more than two hundred years ago.

Now with China we're trying the other way. I had freedom and opportunity, sorry about you guys -- don't get mad, try to remember who did to America and get even if the other way kills us.

[RobbyS]

The problem is that it is hard to know WHAT the economy is doing and WHERE it is going. Hoover found out in 1930 that the guys who supposedly knew how the economic system worked really did not. That is one reason he ditched Mellon. But he had no way to fire the big industrialists. That is why he began to adopt desperate--and largely futile expedients--that really didn't work. If he had been politically smarter he would have forgot economic principle and adopted welfare measures that would have won him electoral support in 1932.

[RLK]

Jobs have been outsourced since the beginning of time. Europeans lost a lot of jobs to the United States at the beginning of the 20th Century. Where would we be if the Europeans protected those industries?

------------------

In about the same position.

[hedgetrimmer]

Is the WTO a central authority? Does it control trade? Does it tell the US we have to open our markets? Does it tell other countries, the WTO will grant them preferences if it considers them "least developed countries" like China? Does it promigulate the lie that what is happening to our economy is "free trade"?

[blueriver]

Jobs have been outsourced since the beginning of time.

What is your definition of outsourcing? Give me an example of a European company that exported jobs to a foreign country in the early 20th century.

[hedgetrimmer]

French foreign legion? He he.

[gooleyman]

this is reported all the time in the news when the manufacturers announce that they are moving production from an American plant to (fill in the blank). Are you saying that you doubt the truth of the various corporate press releases?

No, We seem to have opened a can of worms. Ninenot and I started out talking about Engineering Jobs and he (or someone) said that students are changing majors because the Engineering jobs aren't there. I made a comment that there were no jobs 2 years before I graduated, but there was a boom when I came out. Ninenot then said that those jobs (I'm still thinking Engineering) were gone overseas never to return. THAT'S what I said I didn't believe.

I tell you, when someone misunderstands you once, it sure takes a lot to straighten it out. You're right, I should have never answered the diversion and this would have never happened.

-----
...virtual slave labor in some of our competitor countries...

You've touched on another thing here. It's tough for me to see the cheaper labor costs in other countries as "slave labor". You know, there was a time in this country when our grandfathers only made a couple dollars a day. We didn't call it "slave labor" then. That just happened to be what the going labor rate was in that day. Taxes were very low and Federal regulations were virtually non-existent. Since then, taxes have gone through the roof and we're regulated out the wazoo. Those countries are simply where we were back in that day, IMHO. A company should not be punished for reducing it's manufacturing costs in order to get competitive.

As Walter Williams says: I try to pay as little as I can for things I buy and I try to get as much as I can for what I sell. In other words, buy low and sell high. That's capitalism at it's purest. It's when the Government gets involved in business' day-to-day life that things get (F)messed up.

[XBob]

261-"It continues to qamaze me how some of these kids can possibly be so ignorant of basics, and simultaneously so mouthy."

perfect examples of liberals as "arrogant ignoramuses" we are disussing on another thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1050756/posts

[XBob]

hello marxist

270 - "China is a huge, emerging market for goods. You cannot argue with that. The world is demanding the production of more and more consumer items. "

And the Chinese will produce them, using our stolen technology, and our stolen methods, while our nation falls into the dustbin of history, as we send our Chinese 'tax' money to them, to finance our ideas, in direct conflict with needs for our own welfare.

Remember - Marx was a Free Trader. Here is to Free Trade leading to demise of capitalism and creation of the impoverished proletariat masses.

[Beck_isright]

"Is the WTO a central authority? Does it control trade? Does it tell the US we have to open our markets?"

Yes. W relented on the steel tariffs. The WTO is the globalist version of the economic police. Sadly, we are surrendering to the U.N. and the ecoplanners our capitalist way of life, one day at a time.

[XBob]

270-"we are the leader in developing these products"

we are WERE the leader in developing these products

UNTIL WE SHIPPED OUR TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS TO CHINA, JUST LIKE JAPAN DID.

[XBob]

272 - "And competition does not mean that our workers have to accept lower wages. I think it means our workers will find better employment at higher wages!"

Just where, when there are no jobs except flipping hamburgers.

[ninenot]

This article/thread-header is a good one.

[XBob]

285 - "Communist China is stealing our copyrights and patents, then selling product built with that technology back to us (according to businesses from Wrigley's Gum to Cisco Routers this particular loss cost businesses at least $20 billion last year) "

Actually, they didn't exactly 'steal' our copyrights/patents. A fact which was little covered by our liberal press - in the 1990's, Gore, under his reinventing government program, ordered our whole patent library put onto CD, and xlinton ordered it sent to china to 'save them time' when trying to get US patents.

This was done at the same time they rammed through a change in the US patent, to break the backs of the 'little' patent holders, and to bring US patent laws more into conformity to international law.

For example, it used to be that in the US we could patent a 'widget'. After clinton's changes, that patent could be superceded by a 'blue widget', 'green widget', 'red widget', etc. So, only big companies could afford to 'patent' things.

[XBob]

291-"I think that says it all --- Free Market=Fascism.


Sorry, I do not subscribe to the Karl Marx school of economics."

So, you believe in protecting our trade? Get your s*** together, Karl Marx was a free trader, as it would bring on loss of property by the majority, and creation of the propetyless proletariet.

[Paul Ross]

A'hem. CHINA...not Russia owns Magnequench. Moved the plants to Tianjin, China. Word is that Rumsfeld was AGAIN ordered by GWB to just let it happen, despite his intentions to stop it.

[XBob]

309 - "The Japanese have proved that this does not work. Japan protected their industries and jobs against foreign competition and have been suffering the longest recession in their history."

"Protectionism, as you would call it, is not the reason for Japan's problems. Japan has few natural resources. They must trade engineering and industrial expertise, and industrial processing, for ores, petroleum, and other materials. Thus, Japan is dependent upon exports. If China can underprice and undercut Japanese exports, Japan will fall. Now, guess which country is increasing their exports exponentially and displacing Japan's exports"

Actually, what happened to Japan is what is happening to the US - the Japanese thought they were smart capitalists, so they off shored their industry, investing their techonolgy and money in China, to build the chinese industry, so they could have lots of Chinese exports.

In other words, the Japanese fed the 'tiger cub' and now the 'tiger' is eating them. We are proceding along the same trail, and the Chinese 'tiger' is about to eat us.

[ninenot]

Whatever it is you smoke you must have stolen from Baghdad Bob. Send some to Michael Jackson--he needs it, too.

[ninenot]

Really?

It's actually from the DELIBERATE export of jobs to China. Ask FoMoCo., Eaton, Dell, H-P, GM, GE.....

[XBob]

313 - "Too many people STILL don't understand that it is, in reality, war...

Competition is always compared to war. Those who go on the defensive lose. Those that continue to hone their skills on the offensive win. That is why our economy will win, because we do not protect it and let it stagnate, which is all that protection does."

Amazing, some sense from you.

However, at the same time, you don't give your secrets and your weapons and your money to the enemy, which is what you are advocating.