China Engineers Its Next Great Leap

Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel ^ | 12/31/03 | John Schmid

[XBob]

66 - "What we can do is try to make it easier for US companies to succeed. Tort reform and de-regulation are good places to start. I loath protectionism. However, if China is part of the WTO, the WTO should enforce basic human rights regulations on China."

good ideas.

Let's add another - de-link the chinese yuan from the US dollar, and let appreciate in value against the dollar, instead of under bidding all the time, making chinese stuff far cheaper than it really is.

[XBob]

68 btttttttttttttttt

"The real problem, long term, is that this nation is in the process of placing its technological future in the hands of outsiders, and it never ceases to amaze me how many FReepers either fail to grasp that, or, if they do, seem to cheer it on ..... we will have to depend on outsiders to help us do that. And if those outsiders are not inclined to do so, we will have no option, because the home-grown talent, the intellectual capital, will have vanished along with the industries and professions"

[Paulus Invictus]

Do you demand "Made in America" at Wal-Mart et al? I wonder if you shop in almost any big box store. If you do, you help the Chicoms do all these things and much more. Our nation is quickly being filled with in-flooding immigrants with no controls on our borders. These people will stay, will not be made into engineers and math experts, but will cut the lawn well and cook for the yuppie moms.

As for our ruptured school system, it has been taken over by socialists with an agenda that guarantees we will fall further behind the third world nations in education. India and China, the biggest nations, are proving that our system is a huge failure. Where is our tax money for education going? Ask the Chappaqquidic Kid. He wrote the gazillion dollar education bil that Bush signed and we pay forl.

[RiflemanSharpe]

Americans do make things. If you look you will find excellent quality in thosed products. I have.

[secks]

Well said.

I'm currently working on CS and EE degrees. All the American students joke about how there won't be any engineering jobs left stateside in a decade or so. Of course, the foreign students plan on returning to their home countries, in order to compete with American engineers.

Doesn't anyone see how unfair it is to allow foreign countries to educate their students here, when so much of our higher learning is taxpayer-subsidized?

People, it's time to wake up an realize that what benefits China and India doesn't neccesarily benefit us. If we're going to put our country first, then we've got to start raising the tariffs and focusing on domestically-produced merchandise. Otherwise, this country will become completely service-oriented, with no R&D or manufacturing bases to speak of. Is that really worth a cheaper sneaker or memory chip?

[Doc On The Bay]

SIGH!

There MIGHT be a "FEW" American Engineers who MIGHT understand That, "The Future Marches on...," & that WHATEVER the "Future" Becomes, Either "America" is a MAJOR PART of IT, or "America" becomes a "footnote in History."

WE BEGAN the "Quest to Go To The Stars!!--", so Either we Resume That Quest, or we ABDICATE to another Culture!!

So a LOT OF US are "Waiting,"--Either we COMMIT TO the GENETIC DESTINY of our SPECIES, or we Capitulate to the "Drones with Accountants' Souls!"

Either we "GO TO THE STARS," or we INVOLUTE, & "Feed ALL the "Hungry!!"

TOUGH CHOICE!! --""GUNS or BUTTER!!"

SO, in 100 Years,--WHERE will We Be??; --& WHERE can we GO in 100 years ??

After ALL, we will LIKELY be a LOT "POORER" after a Century of Feeding the "Non-Contributing Poor," a Hundred Years from Now, than we are Now!!

Are you PLEASED that--if you Stop "The Best & Brightest" from attempting to take Humankind to the Stars--you MIGHT HAVE "FED" a few more sad, Incompetent Souls needing help from their "Fellows!"

Are the "Immediate needs" of some Few who are Incapable of providing for Themselves worth Sacrificing the FUTURE of our Species??

I GUARANTEE that the VAST MAJORITY of us--EVEN "Those In Need"--would AGREE that "Humankind" is Worth MORE THAN THAT!!!!

If you "Poll" Humans--EVEN "Those In Need,"--you will Discover that we ALL want to "Go OUT!!"

There is a UNIVERSAL WILL to Resume the Manned Exploration of Space--& a UNIVERSAL WILL to put MEN ON MARS!!

DESPITE a UNIVERSAL CONTEMPT for "NASA,"--the WILL to "Go Out" is Universal!

"W" has a HUGH opportunity to make a HISTORIC DECLARATION!!

This is America;-- "W" has a HUGH opportunity to harness our Boundless Energy to go BACK to the Moon--& On to MARS!!

But Then, the "BeanCounters" will Probably Object!!

We have an Opportunity to Pursue Our Dreams--Before we are TOO Poor to do so--so, do we have a "Leader" capable of "Seizing the MOMENT!!"

THIS is our "Chance" for "Greatness!

Will "W"s" "Handlers'" UNDERSTAND it, or will we "Devolve to Mediocraty??"

Humankind may NEVER AGAIN be Capable of a "Reach for the Stars;"--CAN "W" Rise to the "Occasion??"

SO MANY of us HOPE THAT "W" seizes this brief Moment & Gives Us the "Impetus" to "Go OUT!!"

So MANY of us FEAR THAT "W"--&/or his "Handlers"--CANNOT COMPREHEND that THIS is the time when ALL factors are "Ready."

If we Don't "Go Out Now,"--we may not be "Able Again" for several Centuries!!

[disclaimer]

University in China

University in the USA

[superloser]

Are average America so stupid not to see own future written on walls?

I always enjoy your posts because they ring true.

The "Average American" has grown up accustomed to the world being their oyster. It has been that way "forever" as far as they are concerned and they feel it will always be that way.

The "Average American" also doesn't see anything beyond his own food plate. So long as it is full, he doesn't care about anything else until it is too late. Such is how Modern America runs. Very few people are looking past today into tomorrow.

The "Average American" won't even learn a second language in order to compete successfully in the global marketplace.

The un-average American sees the handwriting on the wall and is busy preparing for it. Most un-average people I know are learning multiple languages. I'm up to four right now besides English I can handle "ok" with a dictionary. Such is life in Modern America where the majority of people are complacent and not striving for anything more than what they currently have. There is always something holding them back or in their way or something another Government program will solve for them if we just give more of it away...

The "Average American" will get quite a wake-up call when they discover they have been completely eclipsed because they have become complacent. Addicted to Government assistance, they will lead us into a complete Socialist mess.

Indeed, even many posters here on FR are advocating Socialist/Communist solutions such as socialized medicine (see the Prescription Drug Benefit threads for details) and additional Government interventions to provide "benefits" for people.

I've feared for our Republic for years. We seem to be doing all we can to get rid of it.

The solution is for people to wake up and realize it takes hard work to stay on top. That means putting America first no matter how hard it bites. BUT, too many people can't see past their own food dish or even five minutes into the future. They figure "someone will take care of it" but unless THEY are the ones who do so, nobody will.

We are quickly becoming a nation of wimps if we haven't already. The "Average American" doesn't want to do the heavy lifting.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm as disgusted with the "Average American" and the silliness in the US as you are.

[ninenot]

Well--I sure didn't go to EITHER of those Universities.

Drat.

[RightWhale]

A 5 cent person can push a button and make something of equal quality of a 5 dollar person pushing the button.

Here we are making a good-faith transition to a post-industrial society, and these ignorant, backwards savages just entering their industrial revolution are going to kick our butt. There is no justice or respect in the world.

[XBob]

90 - "these ignorant, backwards savages just entering their industrial revolution are going to kick our butt. There is no justice or respect in the world"

Right you are - I have seen it happen too often. It is much easier to 'improve' than to 'invent', especially when you 'steal' the 'inventions' which you are 'improving'.

For example - China and numbers of other countries are skipping the expensive infrastructure of national telephone systems and cable TV systems, and going directly to cellular phones and satellite TV's. Saving all that money and time.

[RightWhale]

I think of some of the most famous philosphers in history. It might be tempting to assume they were bookish and never went out if it rained. But it seems they were, in many cases, extremely tough SOBs. Even a guy like Cicero with his high manners and good-uncle advice. Tough man. We should be like that. Advance to our higher level if we must, but be ready for whatever the street may offer. That may be what bothers us, or myself, about the Leftists. Just do this, they say, and the world will be rosy forever. Kucinich hovers at his higher mental state. But so did Gurdjieff, but Gurdjieff could walk into the most dust-blasted town in Armenia and immediately establish himself as a survivor. I wouldn't bet on Kucinich.

The world is not rosy and shows no sign of ever becoming so. So let's go ahead and build our crystal palaces but keep our swords crystal sharp as well. In other words, if we are shipping our industrial and manufacturing capability offshore, let's be sure we can at least stay on the boards of directors.

[Thisiswhoweare]

"There are many agents like this on the net these days. Companies pay people to post positive stuff about their products, pretending to be an ordinary user."

It is called 'perception management'.

[XBob]

You give up too easily. At least a few are thinking about preventing/solving this disolution of our nation:

A Plan to Save American Manufacturing.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1049895/posts

[chimera]

That is why I say if you're in college now, go into the law and prepare for a life of torts if you want to make a good middle class living.

I recognize the intended irony, but there are some on FR who would interpret this literally and cheer this on. So, to preempt that, let me say that even with this scenario, the wheels come off eventually, once all the lawyers have sued everyone else out of business. Then they turn on each other, and their malpractice insurance companies go out of business for lack of being able to pay the claims.

We can take a cue from the natural world on this one. In a normal, in-balance biosystem, the ratio or predators to prey is about 2 to 3 percent. That seems to keep everything on an even keel, preventing overpopulation while at the same time supporting a reasonable level of predators. But when the sh*t hits the fan, and the optimum balance of sharks to victims gets out of balance, eventually the sharks eat each other. In the economic analog, the system implodes (i.e., revolution is the order of the day).

[RightWhale]

Fairbanks is cut off from the outside world. The rail line goes to Anchorage. There is a paved road to Whitehorse. The big freighters fly in to refuel. Now, if a person wanted to open a furniture factory he would have to rely on the local community to buy his product. Some would, no doubt. Most would go to a 'Going Out of Business" furniture outlet or Fred Meyers to buy furniture as they do now due to cheap furniture being good enough for apartment renters and people who will be leaving town in 3 years or less anyway.

But let's say I get my banker to spring for the $5 million to set up, get my steel building, my parcel including zoning change, my Chinese tools and wood fasteners, and find a couple workers who still have most of their fingers. Find some decent wood and have it flown in and start making furniture, and beat on Frank to get the railroad extended to Canada.

There is no industry here. Mining put the town on the map, but mining supports a couple 1000. What are the other 100,000 doing? People b**ch that the private sector cannot compete with the public sector. It's about 50-50. This is a gov't town. That's our industry. The town was built on Lend-Lease and that's all it is now.

So why would anyone with more than half a brain be trying to get some industry going in Fairbanks? A row of scrapers and front-end loaders doesn't count because that's all here to do construction on gov't money. No manufacturing industry would survive its original bank loan: can't ship product anywhere, transportation kills, and can't beat the cheap factory seconds imports. That's all we get here--factory seconds. And labor--American labor values itself highly. Don't know how they justify this anymore since they offer nothing spoecial.

I don't believe this situation is particularly unusual. Somewhat extreme toward the bad transportation end of the spectrum, and no decent local raw materials. Probably similar to business stories everywhere. That's why industry is non-existent here. The oil business, of course, is totally independent of local conditions. Oil is not expected to be part of the community forever. 20 years and out. Bu-bye, and thanks for the infrastructure that connects East Overshoe and West Beardump.

[XBob]

97 - "There is no industry here. Mining put the town on the map, but mining supports a couple 1000. What are the other 100,000 doing? People b**ch that the private sector cannot compete with the public sector. It's about 50-50. This is a gov't town. That's our industry. The town was built on Lend-Lease and that's all it is now. "

Why does anyone live there except for miners? Government subsidy apparently.

Perhaps youall could grow pinapples and oranges and grapefruit too. haha!

Believe it or not, Fairbanks is not representative of the US. So our economic policies should not be set based on Fairbanks economics.

If you live on the tail end of transportation and climate, you export low weight, high value things - like gold, or if you must manufacture something - Eskimo IceCream or silicon chips or furs.

And why do you need to import timber into Alaska? Canada exports timber.

[afraidfortherepublic]

"We're not creating enough in math and science and engineering," said Don Davis, chairman and chief executive of Rockwell Automation Inc., a manufacturer that has remade itself into a multinational corporation based on knowledge work. "And in my mind, that's an enormous problem."

Yes, Don. And you have made hollow shells out of your Wisonsin manufacturing plants -- outsourcing most of the work to China and Czechoslovakia. Do you really expect students here to spend 4-6 years pursuing an engineering curriculum when there are no jobs? Your executives jet around the world on fat expense accounts and pontificate endlessly about producing goods in foreign places -- I know because some of them are my friends.

My question is: who is going to buy your goods after all the manufacturing jobs in the mid west are gone? As a matter of fact, who is going to buy your over-inflated houses after all the manufacturing jobs are gone?

It's not just the low wages paid in the Asian and Eastern European countries that is the problem. There are governmental subsidies for their goods plus tremendous governmental pressures on the American manufacturer.

[RightWhale]

why do you need to import timber into Alaska?

Our local timber isn't much good. Some willow is okay, but most willow is very small. Perhaps if local timber were highly processed like Finnish plywood it would be okay, but our spruce is mostly black or swamp spruce, very light or full of pitch. Looks like our main industry, not counting oilfield support, is military cold-weather training.

There is plenty of mineralization, but development of such resources, aside from gold and oil and a few other spot mines, is frozen by Federal edict. It's a strange place. Lots of potential outside of primary manufacture, yet nothing is allowed to be done. Frozen shortly after the Territory was purchased, possibly because of pressure from eastern industrialists. Coal was discovered immediately, and development was frozen just as quickly. Still happening to this day.