How Illegal Aliens are Bankrupting and Disenfranchising the American Middle and Working Classes

A Different Drummer/Middle American News ^ | December, 2003 | Nicholas Stix

[international american]

"We simply must make these illegal aliens legal - where else will we get the voters to implement a socialist system?"

sarcasm....hmmmm appros pos:)

[sarcasm]

See:

'A Fair and Just Amnesty'

< SNIP >

The legalization movement is gaining new allies in other organizing networks, such as the National Campaign for Jobs and Income Support, a coalition pushing for restoration of safety net programs cut by the 1996 welfare law. "A new legalization policy would be one of the most important antipoverty policies we could enact," says Deepak Bhargava of NCJIS. "Since most undocumented immigrants live in families with legal immigrants or citizens, the impact would be really broad. If we're serious about building a strong multiracial economic justice movement, then legalization has to be on the table."

[international american]

" No we are not, and send Deepak and his whores back to India.

[sarcasm]

Send them back? We need diversity in our welfare population.

[international american]

Yeah, we need guys from Bombay, who, if they get a salary of 1000 USD a month for an IT job, it is equivalent to 4-5000 a month over here. God bless Amerindia!

[Choose Ye This Day]

I don't know what % gets paid in cash. The only ones I ever see (and I see many) are on payroll. I know they are, because that's why I'm there at their employer's company, to talk with them about their 401(k) plan. (The illegals, obviously, don't want to participate in a 401, as they are using false SS #'s. Usually, they're using a cousin's or a friend's, or someone who has since gone back to Mexico.) Perhaps a third of illegals are paid in cash; I doubt it's any higher. Personally, I think it's closer to 10%, but that's just a gut feeling.

I am not one arguing that illegal labor contributes more than it takes. Quite the contrary. I'm only trying to state the facts: Most illegals DO pay into the Social Security system (as do their employers) via the payroll tax. Some on this thread don't want to accept this minor, but technically accurate, fact.

[sarcasm]

Of course some do. They are known to cause the real holders of the SSN massive problems with the IRS when the earnings of 50 people show up under their number.

[Choose Ye This Day]

That's what I've always thought. It's surprising that we don't hear more about these multiple-user SS number problems, what with all the talk of identity theft in the media these days.

[sarcasm]

I posted an article about the problem a number of months ago. The article was discussing the problem in Colorado - it seems that they have been hard hit there.

[mrustow]

In Warren and Tyagi’s new book, The Two-Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Mothers and Fathers are Going Broke, they write that "The brunt of the price increases has fallen on families with children. Data from the Federal Reserve show that [after inflation] the median home value for the average childless individual increased by 23 percent between 1983 and 1998 … For married couples with children, however, housing prices shot up 79 percent—more than three times faster."

Someone help me out here. Xena's Guy and I bought a three-bedroom house last November. How does what we paid differ from that paid by a married couple with one or two kids who bought a similar house? Property value is property value, or am I missing something? (Leaving aside the assessment question, of course.)

I think the point is that a single person buying a house can be much more flexible, and thus not fall prey to predatory realtors. 1. He can take a smaller house (1-2 BR); and even more importantly, 2. He's indifferent to the quality of the school district where the house is.

Let me give you a local example, from where I live (Queens, NY). My wife and I could afford a house or co-op in a certain neighborhood 40 blocks east of where we live. A bunch of nice co-ops have sprouted up there of late, and more continue to sprout up along the same tract of oceanfront land. (The area is prime real estate, but had been in decline for 35 years, due to the city using it as a welfare dumping ground, and due to its concentration of violent, black racism). Housing pressures brought it back.) However, the area's public schools are comprised of 70% genocidally racist blacks, 20% vicious Hispanics, and 5% cowering Asians. (Heck, even the Catholic schools there have a lot of racist, minority kids.) To send our child to those schools would constitute child abuse, and could lead to his death. I know of 7-year-old Asian kids who have gotten their noses broken on a regular basis in those schools, by 7 and 8-year-old black kids.

White and Asian people from that area engage in all sorts of dishonesty, or just plain BEG school officials (I know one lady who says that what she did), in order to get their kids into the schools in the ditrict where we live. And I know Hispanics and blacks who will not send their kids to those schools, either.

And so, owners selling homes in the good school district can get whatever they want from families with school-aged children, who are the only people you see moving in there. (You see some pretty unprepossessing homes here selling for $500K+.) Meanwhile, singles who drive back and forth from work, and need never (or so they think) come into contact with the local school kids can buy those nice, relatively reasonable co-ops in the less desirable school district.

[mrustow]

bumpethbacketh

[Havoc]

A little off topic, eh. This is usually the type of garbage one sees from libs and religious zealots when they can't support their arguments and are backed into a corner. Canadians don't tend to call themselves Americans, nor do Mexicans, nor do Chileans, etc. They refer to themselves according to their nationality, not their geographical location. The United States' Citizenry call themselves Americans pretty Uniquely. Illegals may fracture a law coming here and think themselves no worst than someone caught speeding on one of our highways. In effect, that may be true. It is not however license to drop our drawers and let nationalist socialists and terrorists walze across our borders under the guise of peace loving freedom seekers to wreck our nation from the economy on down as they appear to have been attempting to do for some years. If the politicians refuse to act, the citizenry will act on their own as many have already. Our military is pretty fierce; but, they're nothing compared to a PO'd "American" citezen with a purpose. Don't tread!

[mrustow]

"Since most undocumented immigrants live in families with legal immigrants or citizens, the impact would be really broad. If we're serious about building a strong multiracial economic justice movement, then legalization has to be on the table."

Is this guy a Persian rug, or what? If you're family to a citizen, he can sponsor you right now. If you're family to a legal immigrant, he can sponsor you a couple of years down the line. Guy sounds like a commie, using illegals as his substitute proletariat.

[Polybius]

Better than being the bitter, racist, self-hating, selfish, cowardly, Cuban exile that you are, who is too chicken to try to take back his own country, and who just wants to re-establish his pre-castro cuba aristocracy here in the US.

Ummmmm.......Would you care to rephrase that, X-Bob?

I represent that remark.

(Well, except for the bitter, racist, selfish and cowardly part.)

(And especially the "self-hating"....Most Cuban Americans have a problem in the other end of that spectrum. Just ask my wife ;-) ...)

I am Cuban-born myself and came to the U.S. as an exile.

Between my uncle (Bay of Pigs, Green Berets, two Vietnam combat tours, two Bronze Stars with "V" and two Purple Hearts), my brother (U.S. Army, 10th Mountain Division), my sister (U.S. Army Nurse Corps) and myself (Commander, USNR) we have about 46 years of combined U.S. Armed Forces service.

I could go into a long tactical, strategic, logistical and geopolitical treatise as to all the reasons why Cuban liberation is not a militarily feasible option for Cuban exiles. Suffice it to say that fighting for the United States is a far wiser use of your life than certain and meaningless suicide in a hopeless Quixotic quest.

In regards to "pre-Castro aristocracy", that is Socialist class-warfare rhetoric. Like every society, Cuba had rich and poor. Before Castro, however, Cuba had the largest per capita middle class in Latin America.

Now, from what gawd has written, there is no doubt in my mind that gawd is an idiot and, as I posted to him in Post 245, "a 'holier-than-thou' trash-talking troll'".

Be that as it may, he is not an idiot because he is Cuban American any more that Al Sharpton, Howard Dean or Al Gore are idiots because they are native-born Americans.

Gawd is an idiot simply because every demographic group has it's fair share of idiots and he happens to be one of the idiots in my demographic group.

FreeRegards,
Polybius

[usadave]

Isn't it weird how some states used to be getting better all the time? Neighborhoods used to improve and stay nice for generations. How did that happen?

It's a cultural thing.

[novacation]

There go them there rednecks complainin' 'bout them there illegals.

[Amerigomag]

A little off topic, eh.

Not at all.

It has been my experience that those less traveled have a rather myopic view of the world. Especially US citizens with regard to pride in our equally myopic nationality moniker.

On more than one occasion the insulting personal antics of US citizens in other parts of the Americas were emphasized by the reminder that we "weren't the only Americans".

The critics point was that while national pride is expected, it should be used judiciously while a guest is another's country. The critic's point was well taken and gawd's pompous characterizations reminded me of the small minded attitudes of these less traveled. He has apparently become what he professes to despise.

[XBob]

414 - "Gawd is an idiot simply because every demographic group has it's fair share of idiots and he happens to be one of the idiots in my demographic group." LOL

Sorry, I formatted it wrong - my post was addressed to gawd, and info to you and the others.

As you say, He is an idiot, but not because he is a Cuban, but because he is an ungrateful, unpatriotic, selfish American, who thinks he has a right to come here and change the culture we have formed because it is his 'right'.

I thank you and your family for your service. Youall are the immigrants who are wanted and desired here. However, selfish, self centered idiots like gawd should stay home and make trouble for castro, instead of us.

It takes a lot of hard work to build and maintain a country, and should not be taken lightly.

[Havoc]

Personally, if you have funds to travel, that's good for you - most don't. Most have better things on their minds to do with their funds than go continent hopping and pretending to be better than others or "less myopic" because they have a passport and nothing better to do with their time. Some people, most in fact, are merely busy trying to make ends meet while under pressure from the socialist in the country that want to take increasingly more from them daily to fund their bad habits and those of others who are like minded.

Most people care to some extent about others. That doesn't take a passport. And anyone can run their mouths under the pretense that they know something cause they've been somewhere else. It's a non argument. This country is made up of every culture under the sun and cannot escape noticing it even if we all tried - it's impossible. We call ourselves American because that's what we are - an American nation. This is the United States of America. And as a citizen I'm an American. Others of different nationalities may claim to be from the Americas (north or south geographically) but being Geographically close to the USA doesn't make them citizens. I don't think any of us here necessarily look down on nationalities surrounding us unless there is good reason to do so. And of late, there has been plenty of reason to do so that has nothing to do with having a bleatin passport. Canada runs it's mouth at us then wants to chum up. Mexico is taking our jobs in one hand through legal means and through illegal means at the same time. Understanding people is one thing. Understanding governments is quite another. Hang up your passport, look at the governments instead of the people, then come back and talk about being well travelled.

The French government has been up to it's eyeballs in sleeze with regard to Iraq. I'm sure you'll tell us the French are a great people. Fine, let their government act like it then. You've come to the wrong place looking for sympathy for views based on a used passport. Terrorists are well travelled. I'm sure you'll now explain how empathetic they are. Myopia is when someone is blind to condition. I don't think you'll find too many people in the us blinded by other than the tax man and their daily responsibilities. They really couldn't care less about outside governments who ream their people whilest the people won't stand up for themselves and expect Americans to take care of the situation for them whilest they cuss us for not doing it the way they would have. I don't know where you're from, but, if you prefer someplace else, as Rush would say, go the hell back there and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

As for myself, I see all people in the same way, responsible for themselves and to each other. If one can't act responsibly, then they become a burden on and to others.
At that point, they cross a line into injustice. The notion expressed by many of those types is that it is somehow owed them the right to be injust on everyone elses dime. They have another thing coming. We are a big hearted nation that gives enourmous amounts of our money to charity - not because we want to look good; but, because we care and we can. That too is abused by others - even those whome we help.

I'm sorry if I'm misreading your approach; but, as it stands, I don't think I have. I will not sit back and sympathize over peoples who are destroying our economy and robbing us blind and be told I or anyone else is myopic for defending themselves and getting a little hot about it.
If people want to come here, they can expect the same treatment they get elsewhere - common decency. If they abuse the system while here, they can expect cold bars and bad food. If they choose to immigrate here, they can do it legally, obey the law and learn the freakin language. Chaos may be the rule of thumb elsewhere; but, we don't want that here. This is the melting pot. If you go in the pot and don't melt in with the rest to become what all of us are, then don't expect to be treated like one of us.

Good night.

[PRND21]

There go them there rednecks complainin' 'bout them there illegals.

Free Kobe!