Then why continue to engage in a conversation, the only point of which is to refute Partisan's claims that no black confederate combat soldiers existed?

I joined to dispute GOPcapitalist's asinine claim of two divisons of black confederate soldiers. I assume by now you're prepared to admit I never disputed their existence, only the inflated numbers.

Oh, that's right... Because you're a troll.

Ah yes, name calling. The last refuge of the sothron contingent. Why not call me 'boy' while you're at it. That works for GOP and is much more in keeping with grand southern traditions.

So now your initial claim of 100,000 black rebel troops is down to two companies. Calling them a "group of guys with guns" still will not do because you have not shown any evidence that they were armed or saw combat. Reports of hospital workers drilling does not mean they were drilling with guns. As you know, Civil War recruits often began their drilling practicing marching and close-order maneuvers, usually without guns at first.

Anecdotal evidence, such as a claim by a secondhand account of an anonymous rebel courier of having seen them, is not evidence of the existence of armed rebel troops in combat nor that they were from the two batallions in question. You have not shown any evidence that Pegram's btallion or the Winder-Jackson batallion ever were in combat. Please provide a CSA order of battle showng the place of these units in the Confederate command structure showwing in which regiment, division, and corps they belonged. You could also provide a U.S. Army account of the Pegram and Winder-Jackson batallions.\

So now your initial claim of 100,000 black rebel troops is down to two companies.

I don't believe I've ever stated a figure, 100,000 or otherwise. If you believe that I have please quote me.

Calling them a "group of guys with guns" still will not do because you have not shown any evidence that they were armed or saw combat.

Sure I have. I already posted orders and records referring to them being armed for combat. I've also given you links and detailed accounts of the battle in which they participated near Amelia. You have simply chosen not to acknowledge any of that documentation because it spoils your fantasy land in which the south was a big evil racist region of Simon Legrees who had to be put back in their place by Saint Abe.

Reports of hospital workers drilling does not mean they were drilling with guns.

Yawn.

HEADQUARTERS JACKSON HOSPITAL,
February 14, 1865.

Lieut. Gen. R. S. EWELL:
DEAR SIR: For my own gratification, as well as those who are taking great interest in the important question, with regard to the using of the slaves of the Confederacy as an assisting element to us in defending our homes, firesides, and country from those who would destroy us, I would respectfully say that this morning I caused the hired male slaves at this hospital to be convened, and after asking them the deliberate question, if they would be willing to take up arms to protect their masters' families, homes, and their own from an attacking foe, sixty out of seventy-two responded they would volunteer to go to the trenches and fight the enemy to the bitter end.
Very respectfully, your most obedient servant,

F. W. HANCOCK,
Surgeon in charge.

"The appearance of the battalion of colored troops on the Square, yesterday afternoon, attracted thousands of our citizens to the spot, all eager to catch a glimpse of the sable soldiers. The bearing of the negroes elicited universal commendation. While on the Square, they went through the manual of arms in a manner which would have done credit to veteran soldiers, while the evolutions of the line were executed with promptness and precision." - Richmond Enquirer, March 23, 1865

In the event that you do not know what that means - something that I will assume to be the case considering that you typically do not - I have taken the liberty of locating an historically accurate description of what occurred during the manual of arms in the civil war. From http://www.acws.co.uk/gilhams/gilharms.htm

MANUAL OF ARMS

This Manual of Arms is based on Gilham (or Hardee's Heavy Infantry) Musket Drill. Civil War drills are quite different from modern 20th century drills. Although some of the commands are the same, most of the positions are different. You must return to SHOULDER - ARMS before going to another position in most of the command orders. The Manual of Arms is done in separate motions, and each motion is done in a set time.

1. ATTENTION - COMPANY

The body is in the position of attention. The right arm is at the side, the right hand gripping the musket, fingers forward. The musket butt is beside the right foot, barrel vertical and along the hollow of the right shoulder.

2. POSITION OF SHOULDER - ARMS

The musket is held in the palm of the left hand, the left elbow slightly bent, the heel of the butt between the forefinger and middle finger, the thumb on the front screw of the butt-plate. The butt is held back so that the barrel is almost vertical. The barrel is to the front with the stock against the hollow of the left shoulder.

3. SUPPORT - ARMS

With the right hand seize the small of the stock and slightly raise the musket. Place the left palm on the chest. Support of the musket by resting the hammer on the crook of the arm and pressing the musket to the shoulder. Drop the right hand to the side.

CARRY - ARMS

Grasp the musket with the right hand at the small of the stock. Place the left hand under the butt as before. Lower the musket slightly and drop the right hand to the side.

The command CARRY - ARMS is always given to return from SUPPORT - ARMS to SHOULDER - ARMS. In all other instances the command is SHOULDER - ARMS. However, in re-enactments, the command SHOULDER - ARMS is often used.

4. PRESENT - ARMS

With the left hand turn the musket to the right so that the lock plate is facing to the front. With the right hand grasp the small of the stock. Bring the piece, vertically, in front of the body, turning the barrel towards the body. With the left hand grasp the musket, thumb is just above the lock plate, keeping the elbow close to the side and forearm horizontal with the ground.

SHOULDER - ARMS

With the right hand turn the musket so that the barrel is now facing out. Raise the musket and place against the left shoulder. Grasp the butt with the left hand and drop the right hand to the side. When done correctly, there should not be any raising or lowering of the musket with the left hand.

5. ORDER - ARMS

Lower the left arm and with the right hand grasp the musket just above the lower band. Bring the musket to the right side, vertically with the rammer to the front, the butt three inches from the ground. Let the musket gently slip to the ground, then grasp the barrel with the thumb and forefinger, arm extended, and the muzzle about two inches from the shoulder.

This is the same position as for ATTENTION - COMPANY.

REST

At this command the soldiers are not required to remain silent or steady. However, they shall not quit their rank without special permission.

ATTENTION - COMPANY

This command is issued to pass from the position of REST, to one of silence and steadiness. On COMPANY, the men will return to the position of Order-Arms and remain firm and silent.

SHOULDER - ARMS

With the right hand raise the musket vertically, turning the barrel to the front and place it against the left shoulder. Grasp the butt with the left palm and slide the right hand down to the lock. Then drop the right hand to the size

6. FIX - BAYONET

Straighten the left arm and with the right hand grasp the musket just above the lower band. Lower the musket with the right hand along the left thigh and with the left hand grasp the musket just above the right hand. Lower the musket gently to the ground with the left hand with the butt just to the left of the left foot and the muzzle in front of the chest. With the right hand grasp the bayonet by the socket and shank. Make sure about one inch of the socket is above the heel of the hand. Draw the bayonet from the scabbard and fix bayonets, turning the clasp with the right thumb. Then extend the left arm along the barrel without dropping the left shoulder.

SHOULDER - ARMS

With the left hand grasp the musket and raise it until the band is up to the level of the chin. The forearm is touching the musket and the barrel is to the front. The right hand is still supporting the musket. Lower the right hand and grasp the musket just above the small of the stock next to the hammer. Raise the musket with the right hand and grasp the butt with the left palm. Press the musket to the left shoulder with the right hand. Move the right foot back on line with the left foot. Drop the right hand to the side.

7. CHARGE - BAYONET

Face oblique to the right and take the first position in About-Face. Turn the musket lock plate to the front and grasp the small of the stock with the right hand making sure the musket is kept vertical and slightly away from the body. Let go of the musket with the left hand and lower the musket with the right hand. Grasp the musket with the left hand at the lower band. The left elbow is against the body, and the right hand against the hip. The barrel is up and the point of the bayonet is at eye level.

SHOULDER - ARMS

Face to the front and bring the right foot alongside the left hand and grasp the butt with the left palm. Drop the right hand to the side.

Charge Bayonet

8. GUARD AGAINST INFANTRY - GUARD

Turn half right on both heels, raise the musket slightly with the right hand at the small of the stock. Grasp it with the left hand above and near the lower band.

Move the right foot 20 inches to the rear, the right heel behind the left, knees slightly bent. Lower the musket with both hands, the left elbow against the body, until the point of the bayonet is slightly elevated.

SHOULDER - ARMS

Throw up the musket to the left shoulder, at the same time bring the right heel by the side of the left and face to the front.

9. GUARD AGAINST CAVALRY - GUARD

Same as for Guard Against Infantry, except that the right hand will be supported against the hip, and the bayonet held at the height of the eye, as in Charge-Bayonet.

SHOULDER - ARMS

Similar to Guard Against Infantry.

...And so forth. I think you get the point. If not, I do not believe that any ammount of proof will meet your bizarre, historically unfounded, and fraudulent refusal to acknowledge the simple fact of their existence. I could even produce a photograph a photograph from the middle of battle showing a black confederate soldier, rebel flag in one hand and a bayonetted rifle with the head of a yankee impaled on the end of it in the other and you STILL would not believe that they existed. You would probably respond with some smarmy and obnoxious comment in which you demanded to meet one of them in person or some other impossibility of that nature.

Anecdotal evidence, such as a claim by a secondhand account of an anonymous rebel courier of having seen them, is not evidence of the existence of armed rebel troops in combat nor that they were from the two batallions in question.

Wrong again. The courier's name, R. M. Doswell, was provided to you with an accompanying link way back in post number 515.

You have not shown any evidence that Pegram's btallion or the Winder-Jackson batallion ever were in combat.

Wrong again. See post 515.

Please provide a CSA order of battle

There was no order of battle - they were ambushed by yankee calvalry and had to form a line on the field near where they stood. The battle reports indicate that the calvalry made a charge at this line, were met with fire and repulsed, made a second charge, broke through, scattered the soldiers and took what they could prisoner. Approximately 6 months ago when you asked me about the same thing I provided you with a link and excerpt to the official reports of this same battle from the union commander in the "Official Records of the War of the Rebellion." You responded at the time by accusing me of linking you to a "neo-confederate publication" when in fact the "Official Records" are the multi-volume U.S. Government Printing Office series on military documents from the civil war. To the best of my recollection you abandoned that debate shortly afterward, knowing of course that as usual your delusion had been exposed.

Thanks for the nifty manual, but still you have nothing.

Thanks for the nifty manual, but still you have nothing.

I've got all I need: a newspaper report documenting that they went through the manual of arms which, as that website indicates, includes extensive manuevering with a firearm in hand and not simply walking around in formation as you claimed. Not that I expect you to be honest enough to admit that simple fact. As I said, I could show you a photo of a black confederate in the middle of battle carrying a bayoneted rifle with the head of a yankee impaled on the end of it and you would STILL deny both the fact that he had a gun and the fact that he even existed at all. Dispute this characterization? Then prove me wrong and own up to your falsehoods denying the black confederate soldiers.

It is you who must prove the existence of black Confederate soldiers, armed and in combat, and so far you have failed. And that's a FACT.

It is you who must prove the existence of black Confederate soldiers, armed and in combat, and so far you have failed.

I have provided documentation of all three beyond any reasonable standard of measure. My evidence to date includes (1) official confederate records of their recruitent, (2) multiple newspaper accounts observing their activities, (3) the existence of a battle between Amelia and Farmville VA where they fought, and (4) the identity of an eyewitness to that battle. Previously I have also provided to you (5) the official union account of attacking a confederate position in that said battle, and (6) the official union record of captured POWs after the line fell in that battle, in which it is noted that several were black.

By any reasonable and honest measure I have more than met my burden of proof. The material I have provided is evidently sufficient enough for the national park service to recognize the same facts I have reported as they have placed a historical display on the battlefield itself describing the black participants. That these pieces of clear and convincing evidence continue to fail to meet YOUR standards is indicative not of any flaw in the evidence but rather of an inherently fraudulent assessment of proof on your own behalf.

You have created for yourself a scenario in which nothing short of building a time machine, taking you back to the scene of that battle, and introducing you personally to the soldiers who fought in it will convince you to change your preset and historically flawed version, and even then you would probably dispute it.