'It Is as It Was' (Peggy Noonan on the Pope's Viewing of "The Passion)

Wall Street Journal ^ | 12/17/2003 | Peggy Noonan

[pctech]

Hey, I was friends with a hard-core dominan priest. He was the one who I did the project for with the pictures and all. And though I'm not catholic, he did ask me (and others) for help in rebuilding the blessed sacrament chapel.

[pctech]

dominican priest, sorry

[pctech]

No comment, or as my mother would say, if you can't anything nice about someone don't say anything at all. Now there are times I can't hold my tongue and lash out anyway.

[Campion]

all you know how to do it seems is to argue and cause strife in everything you say

I'm not the one who pointed to Jack Chick and Alberto Rivera as paragons of Christian truth. I'm sure you see nothing offensive at that. Pray about it, and maybe you will.

[pctech]

Well if that is your evidence it's no wonder. The person who wrote the article was catholic!!!! Duh!

[pctech]

They were only two names among the many others. Why not try someone else more current and let's see if the paragons of christianity are torn down agani.

[Campion]

If you're talking about the webpage I referenced, that's the 18th Century German nun on whose book Mel Gibson's movie is based. If you hate her, you'll hate the movie. But if the movie exalts Jesus, why would you hate it? And if you don't hate the movie based on the nun's book, why hate the nun?

I guess I really don't understand why you want to promote the movie, but despise the faith that inspired it.

[Campion]

The person who wrote the article was catholic!!!!

I doubt they were, because Christianity Today is an evangelical magazine. But what if they were? Are you then saying that all Catholics are liars?

By the way, you know what passes for an argument among Holocaust deniers? "You can't believe this Holocaust stuff, because most of the sources who write about it are Jewish." Same difference.

[Campion]

The one person who brought us a Bible that has lasted for over 300 years is the same person who tortured and killed hundreds.

Nonsense. St. Jerome never tortured or killed anyone. He did chew some people out in a remarkably venomous style, though.

[Zechariah11]

>>Easy boys, no need for flared tempers here, last thing we want is for the thread to be pulled...<<

My temper is completely in check, and I haven't even referred to this other guy who took such great exception.

I do wonder why YOU insist on dialoguing with those who have impugned stalwarts of the faith as being demonic. Think about what the Lord said in Mt. 10:14

"Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet."

He didn't say "make nice" with them.

[pctech]

Oh boy, you're talking about opening Pandora's box even wider, cuz last time I checked Jesus and his ministry DIDN'T start the catholic church. Nor was Peter the first Pope. But please don't go there, I really don't have the time right now to refute any allegations you may come up with to support your point of view. Please save it for tomorrow, I really got to get some work done today!

[pctech]

I was talking about King James, doh!

[pctech]

But Jesus also went to the "sinners" to accomplish his ministry did He not? How can do no less? Sure I might come away a bit bruised, but no one said the walk was easy.

As for dialoguing with them, well, someone has to tell them. What happens when we get to heaven and Jesus asked us why we never said anything?

[Campion]

cuz last time I checked Jesus and his ministry DIDN'T start the catholic church

You've mastered time travel to go along with your finely honed evidence gathering and debating skills?

My point is pretty simple. If you think real Catholics are going to be impressed that you were buddies with a heretical, faithless priest ... think again.

[cupcakes]

This is coming out just a little after my anniversery and a few weeks before I am to birth my 3rd child. I can't wait to see it. The previews alone have brought me to tears.
For anyone who would find something showing an actual portrayal surrounding the death of Christ anti-semitic merely because Jews were at the scene and SOME Jews supported ridding themselves of Jesus, I ask Jews, does an accurate portrayal of the holocaust breed anti-German sentiment? Does an accurate story on the mountain snake handling Christians breed anti-Christian sentiment? It is funny how in 2000 years you still have certain Jews who are threatened by Jesus and any mention of Him. I'm sorry, but you can't rub His name off of some monument somewhere and pretend He didn't exist circa ancient Egypt. Jews seem to know so little about Christianity or they would not be threatened. Christians, at least this one, know that the blood of Jesus is on us all. We all needed His salvation and we all sent Him to that cross via our sinful behavior.

[Campion]

I do wonder why YOU insist on dialoguing with those who have impugned stalwarts of the faith as being demonic.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you don't seem to have a problem with people who impugn stalwarts of my faith as being Antichrist, which seems to me a little worse than demonic.

Just for the record, I -- not speaking for ArrogantBustard here -- do not think that Spurgeon was demon-possessed. Just badly mistaken. He now, of course, has altered his opinions ... somewhat.

[cupcakes]

Agree PC. I am not a Catholic either, but on matters such as these, I trust this man as one of the leading scholars on what Christ's last hours were like. He, and others like Billy Graham, are much better read on such matters than the average Christian and their opinions mean a lot as well read men of Christ. To admire him for his candor doesn't make me Catholic any more than admiring Billy Graham for his endorsement makes me Baptist.

[Zechariah11]

Sure, Christ went to sinners, but He went to those who were receptive. When the Pharisees showed their antagonism and accused Him of being demonically influenced, He excoriated them and made a decisive break with that crowd. He spoke in parables from then on to SHIELD His message to them.

Look at Paul's attitude in Galatians towards the legalizers. he essentially told them to go castrate themselves.

There was one false teacher who was despised by the Apostle John. In his last years John would not even enter the same building as that cretin (according to extra-Biblical sources).

Do not waste your time with such people.

[sarasmom]

America, actually described as North America, Central America,and South America,are continents.
Many contries are located in the Americas.
The USA is one of them.
Canadians are Americans, as are Mexicans, Brazillians, Peruvians, Hundurans etc.
Calling oneself American does not mean that one is actually a citizen of the USA.
Have I clarified my position?
You may consider it nitpicking,but I find the difference between calling oneself an American, or calling oneself a citizen of the USA to be very important.

[Zechariah11]

I do not think it is AT ALL appropriate to insult the Pope or the Catholic faith on this forum. It is rude, crude, offensive, and tactless. Period.

There is a difference between an open forum/public dialogue where sensibilities are exposed and a private Biblical commentary. Even so, there are VERY few conservative commentaries which label the Pope as the AntiChrist -- and I have read many.

You are more likely to see comparisons to the Church of the Nicolaitans. But then the modern evangelical church is often viewed by conservatives, themselves, as having the features of the Church at Laodecea. Both churches were harshly criticised by the resurrected Lord.

Luther was strong in soteriology (the doctrine of salvation) rather than eschatology (the doctrines associated with the Tribulation, etc.). So if he said the Pope was the AntiChrist, it wouldn't surprise me, He was distraught over the obscurity of salvation by faith alone which he felt had been obscured by the dominant Church. Luther should be read for his treatment of the Psalms, Galatians, and Romans -- not Revelation.

The AntiChrist makes no acknowledgement of God. How can that apply to the Pope since the Pope acknowledges the Trinity all the time? The future False Prophet MAY arise from Rome but he would have to repudiate the Trinity and call upon worship of a contemporary world leader, the AntiChrist.